Your miracle

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nobspeople
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Your miracle

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Some say miracles are real, while others say they're not. The naysayers often point out to limbs not growing back, other dead people not raising up and 'living their best life', no one since Mosses has interacted with a talking and burning bush that's not consumed, etc.
Yet believers do point out that Billy Bobchristian was 'healed' from his sin. Or Bobby Billchristian survived his 11th hour surgery that saved his life. And the like.

For discussion:
So, here's your chance, believers, once and for all. What miracle have you experienced that you KNOW was a miracle and that it was from god (if you're willing to have it, potentially, challenged - and why shouldn't you? You have faith it's real that's all that matter to you, right? Why not use this time to witness the power of your god?!?)?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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brunumb
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Re: Your miracle

Post #81

Post by brunumb »

Mithrae wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:05 pm
Mithrae wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:04 am 3 > There appear to be hundreds of thousands of expert reports of observed miracles over the past few decades, even in the USA alone: A 2004 survey by the Louis Finkelstein Institute for Religious and Social Studies and HCD Research "found that 74% of doctors believe that miracles have occurred in the past and 73% believe that can occur today," but in particular that "a majority of doctors (55%) said that they have seen treatment results in their patients that they would consider miraculous." Those results seem to be consistent with additional surveys in 2008 and 2010. Extrapolating from the fact that there are over 1 million doctors in the USA, we can infer well over half a million expert reports of observed miracles in that country over the past few decades.
Googling the rates at which the general American population believe in miracles (~80% in many older surveys, potentially as low as 67% in some recent ones) and claim to have personally witnessed a miracle (~30-40%) is easy enough. There's no reason to suppose that all doctors should witness miracles if they occur; but among a highly intelligent and educated subset of the population trained to diagnose natural causes and cures, there are excellent reasons to expect that they would not report non-existent miracles at a higher than normal rate. Similarly the medical field is where we might reasonably expect interventions from a benevolent agency to most commonly occur, if they occur at all, since disease and sickness tend to be our times of greatest need and helplessness.
GOOD GRIEF. What people believe and claim is not evidence. Please don't insult us by suggesting that any of that supports the actual occurrence of miracles. I suppose you also believe that people have been abducted and probed by aliens, amongst numerous other outrageous things, based on the percentages of the population that reports them. Demonstrate that any alleged miracle could not have occurred through natural processes and, by necessity, therefore involved supernatural intervention. If you can't, I'm done.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: Your miracle

Post #82

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Hmmm well I can't access those links for whatever reason. But I note that your post was trying to protest that these people would not be anything but objective in claiming 'miracles'. Sorry but in the US that's only too likely to be people finding a miracle where there wasn't one.

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Re: Your miracle

Post #83

Post by TRANSPONDER »

And a p.s. It is difficult to check any of this because the 'net is swamped with anecdotal claims of miracles. But there was an interview with Francis Collins, a Scientist who believes in God if you want one and here's what he says.

Collins:"In my own experience as a physician, I have not seen a miraculous healing, and I don’t expect to see one. Also, prayer for me is not a way to manipulate God into doing what we want Him to do. Prayer for me is much more a sense of trying to get into fellowship with God."

That'll do for me.

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