The Jesus to whom atheists and others often refer

[Eloi]

Many times when the teachings of Jesus and his person are discussed, reference is made to a particular interpretation of what his words may be indicating. For example, I have read a discussion about a Jesus who denies or contradicts the Law of Moses. But that is an incorrect way of understanding Jesus, just like a political Jesus is or one who does not admit rich people among his followers, as if honest possessions were sin.

Can those who debate the teachings of Jesus at least begin to ascertain that the Jesus they suppose is the one that Scripture shows us and not an imaginary Jesus?

This topic is to analyze the need to be serious in the use of terms and premises, so that the debates adjust to the truth, and the conclusions are more accurate.

What is the Jesus you have in mind? Does it correspond to the Jesus of the Bible? Can you really know what Jesus was like?

[oldbadger]

I once read an apologetic (I don't know whether spawned by the Vatican or by some individual) but it told a tale (which I didn't credit for a second) of a Jew who went to Rome in some earlier century, saw the greed, avarice, corruption and veniality of the papacy...and became a Catholic. His rationale: "If something with such bad leaders can deoso much good, it must be true/from God'. It still upsets my stomach to recall it, after all these years.

That must be a kind of post trauma condition that you've got, right there. ...... Really.
I still get upset about stuff from decades back but it's usually past actions and situations that get me.

I'm going to try and help you to cope with this stuff....... feel it's my duty, you know?

Right,
In November 1965 Pope Paul VI received Divine Revelation from Jesus (or was it God?, anyway...) and thus produced the Dei Verbum, a 5 chapter document to align the Catholic church with ....... with...... I'm not quite sure with what, but my take on it all is that after 2000 years many historical and language scholars were beginning to knock on the great doors of reality without too much risk of being set on fire or being totally financially mashed by the various secret societies that abounded around the cross.

The gospels were beginning to be scrutinized as never before and a Historical Jesus was rising out of the ashes of a son-to-be exposed New Testament. So it was necessary for churches to body swerve in line with all the new research that was emerging. Basically, the gospel as an exact, factual, unerring document direct from the Abrahamic God needed to change in to an accurate spiritual guide to direct the seeker of light and love to the pastures of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And you and me, we got got blooming lost, because you pawned your theological compass for one hit at this world and my map insists that the reigning guv'nor around here is Nature. And so neither of us gets a theology map-reading badge. So that's it....... like me, you're stuffed, no heaven for you.....or me.

[TRANSPONDER]

I don't know about trauma, but there are various things that make impressions on us and which formate our views and beliefs and we recall even decades later.

I see the churches (generally) torn between denying the science that threatens to undermine their teachings and grudgingly playing catch -up so as not to lose all credibility, support and influence. There are fundamentalist groups that either choose to try to remain separate and exclude the wider social ethos that undermines them, or they seek to subvert the state and become a theocracy, where science has to conform to their Dogma. We have been warned.

[oldbadger]

I don't know about trauma, but there are various things that make impressions on us and which formate our views and beliefs and we recall even decades later.

I see the churches (generally) torn between denying the science that threatens to undermine their teachings and grudgingly playing catch -up so as not to lose all credibility, support and influence. There are fundamentalist groups that either choose to try to remain separate and exclude the wider social ethos that undermines them, or they seek to subvert the state and become a theocracy, where science has to conform to their Dogma. We have been warned.

Yes..... to all of your post.
But if a memory upsets you badly, then that is a kind of trauma.
And there are indeed churches that would gladly form a theocracy ruled by judges enforcing Old Testament Law, together with public executions or floggings up to 40 lashes for those convicted. I once read one of these folks who explained that punishments have got to be painful and public. One of its main advocates died of Covid recently, he had been speaking out on his radio channel against masks, vaccines, etc.

I don't know if I am allowed to name individuals so I won't, but the Denver Bible Church might connect a searcher with what I have described.

[TRANSPONDER]

I have a number of unpleasant memories, but not about religion, in fact. That has been a journey of discovery which has been quite enjoyable. The unpleasant experiences have been part of the learning -curve.