Can anyone give good reason to believe Yahweh is not a demon?

[Willum]

Can anyone give good reason to believe Yahweh is not a demon?


Demand animal sacrifices.
Demand the Hebrew commit genocide for a cultural misunderstanding.
A demon would murder planets because he was having a tantrum.
When the Hebrew's generations were weakened by following it, had them undergo genocides themselves.
A demon would allow Adam and Eve to be corrupted, for reasons opaque. (Perfect beings not intending to sin, sinning.)
A demon would be defeated by a greater power (Satan) yet claim victory.
A demon would turn people to salt for looking back.
A demon would claim to love you, while sending most folks to Hell.
A demon would write a book saying he was good, omnipotent and full of all sorts of propaganda.
A demon would re-name itself "God," to capitalize on the conflation with the benevolence of deities.

...and so on.

Can anyone provide good reason to not suspect Yahweh is a demon?

[William]

Who is Satan in Gnosticism?

If we take, for example, the Valentinian Gnostic cosmogony, the Christian notion of Satan doesn’t come into play at all. He is replaced instead by the ill-begotten son of Sophia, who gave birth outside of the normal pattern of reproduction for the Divine Syzygies.

The syzygies were binary emanations of the one source of everything, the ultimate God, who in partaking in self-reflection broke apart pieces of itself. These emanations, or divine pairs, would further create other syzygies. Sophia (feminine wisdom), apart from her mate, Logos, gave birth to an imperfect being known as Ialdabaoth (Yaldabaoth).

Ashamed of what she had done, she hid Ialdabaoth in a cloud, which not only obfuscated her creation from the view of her divine brothers and sisters but hid the divine realm from his sight. Left to his own devices, her son began creating a universe of his own, tapping into his memory of the heavenly realm. He created a legion of angels to mimic the syzygies, and he created humans to mimic Adamas, the heavenly First Man.

Sophia, seeing what her bastard son had done, took pity on his human creations and sought to retrieve those pieces of the divine that inhabit all emanations. He inhabited the human form of Eve to try to let the human Adam know of his true divine origins. Being a jealous creator, Ialdabaoth sent his angels to rape Eve and to retrieve those pieces of the divine for him. Sophia escaped, but not without leaving the memory of something greater in the minds of humankind. Later, the Logos, Sophia’s divine mate, would descend into the imperfect realm to try to save those pieces of divinity still here.

In order to maintain his rule of his realm and his creations, Ialdabaoth, sometimes called Saklas (fool) or Samael (the blind god), created a no-win situation for humans. He continually dulls our divine sense of self by keeping our minds and spirits firmly in the physical realm. So, as you can see, the greatest “evil” in Valentinian lore lies not with a subterranean demon but with the imperfect and psychologically-damaged Creator.

In some Gnostic texts, the serpent in the Garden of Eden is actually trying to awaken humanity to their greater divinity, not lure them into the Pit. There was even a rise of what was known as Luciferianism in the 19th and early-20th Centuries that took its origins from historical Gnosticism. They believed that Lucifer is simply as his name infers, a “light bringer.” {SOURCE}

Judaist thinking on Satan

In the Bible.
Term used in the Bible with the general connotation of "adversary," being applied (1) to an enemy in war (I Kings v. 18 [A. V. 4]; xi. 14, 23, 25), from which use is developed the concept of a traitor in battle (I Sam. xxix. 4); (2) to an accuser before the judgment-seat (Ps. cix. 6); and (3) to any opponent (II Sam. xix. 23 [A. V. 22]). The word is likewise used to denote an antagonist who puts obstacles in the way, as in Num. xxii. 32, where the angel of God is described as opposing Balaam in the guise of a satan or adversary; so that the concept of Satan as a distinct being was not then known. Such a view is found, however, in the prologue to the Book of Job, where Satan appears, together with other celestial beings or "sons of God," before the Deity, replying to the inquiry of God as to whence he had come, with the words: "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it" (Job i. 7). Both question and answer, as well as the dialogue which follows, characterize Satan as that member of the divine council who watches over human activity, but with the evil purpose of searching out men's sins and appearing as their accuser. He is, therefore, the celestial prosecutor, who sees only iniquity; for he persists in his evil opinion of Job even after the man of Uz has passed successfully through his first trial by surrendering to the will of God, whereupon Satan demands another test through physical suffering (ib. ii. 3-5).

Yet it is also evident from the prologue that Satan has no power of independent action, but requires the permission of God, which he may not transgress.He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence no more than by the presence of other beings before the face of God. This view is also retained in Zech. iii. 1-2, where Satan is described as the adversary of the high priest Joshua, and of the people of God whose representative the hierarch is; and he there opposes the "angel of the Lord," who bids him be silent in the name of God. In both of these passages Satan is a mere accuser who acts only according to the permission of the Deity; but in I Chron. xxi. 1 he appears as one who is able to provoke David to destroy Israel. The Chronicler (third century B.C.) regards Satan as an independent agent, a view which is the more striking since the source whence he drew his account (II Sam. xxiv. 1) speaks of God Himself as the one who moved David against the children of Israel. Since the older conception refers all events, whether good or bad, to God alone (I Sam. xvi. 14; I Kings xxii. 22; Isa. xlv. 7; etc.), it is possible that the Chronicler, and perhaps even Zechariah, were influenced by Zoroastrianism, even though in the case of the prophet Jewish monism strongly opposed Iranian dualism (Stave, "Einfluss des Parsismus auf das Judenthum," pp. 253 et seq.). An immediate influence of the Babylonian concept of the "accuser, persecutor, and oppressor" (Schrader, "K. A. T." 3d ed., p. 463) is impossible, since traces of such an influence, if it had existed, would have appeared in the earlier portions of the Bible. {SOURCE}

Christianity and Satan

The Bible says God created a spiritual world that existed before the Earth. He created angels – spirit beings that are not human, but not God. There was a hierarchy within them. Among the most senior was Lucifer. But pride prompted him to lead a rebellion against God and he was ejected from God’s presence. Other angels joined this rebellion and suffered the same fate. The Bible refers to this confrontation in the books of Ezekiel and Revelation. Since then Satan has set himself up as God’s arch enemy, leading unseen spiritual forces at war with God and his people. The first time Satan is encountered in the Bible is at The Fall when, in the form of a serpent, he persuades Adam and Eve to defy God. The results are catastrophic for humanity – separation from God. But the story points ahead to Jesus who will defeat Satan and save humanity.

Some Christians feel that Satan is not a spiritual being but a way of describing evil principles at work. Jesus talked about Satan, describing him as ‘the father of lies’. Three of the Bible books which document Jesus’ life - Matthew, Mark and Luke – tell how Jesus encountered the devil during a 40-day retreat in the desert and how the devil tried to tempt him. But Jesus resisted. The Bible book, James, says people can do this too… ‘resist the devil and he will flee from you’. Christianity teaches that the devil has power and influence and should be taken seriously but he is not equal to God. Jesus Christ was always able to overcome him. Although he is active now, Satan’s destiny is permanent destruction. {SOURCE}

Islam and Satan

Iblīs, in Islam, the personal name of the Devil, possibly derived from the Greek diabolos. Iblīs, the counterpart of Satan in Christianity, is also referred to as ʿAduw Allāh ( “Enemy of God”), al-Aduw (“Enemy”), or, when he is portrayed as a tempter, al-Shayṭān (“Demon”).

At the creation of humanity, God ordered all his angels to bow down in obedience before Adam. Iblīs refused, claiming he was a nobler being since he was created of fire whereas human beings came only of clay. For this exhibition of pride and disobedience, God threw Iblīs out of heaven. His punishment, however, was postponed until Judgment Day, when he and his host will have to face the eternal fires of hell; until that time he is allowed to tempt all but true believers to evil. As his first demonic act, Iblīs, referred to in this context as al-Shayṭān, entered the Garden of Eden and tempted Eve to eat of the tree of immortality, causing both Adam and Eve to forfeit paradise. Disguised as the hātif, the mysterious voice of Arab mythology, Iblīs also tempted ʿAlī, Muhammad’s son-in-law, unsuccessfully trying to keep him from performing the ritual washing of the Prophet’s dead body.

Iblīs has long been a figure of speculation among Muslim scholars, who have been trying to explain the ambiguous identification of Iblīs in the Qurʾān as either angel or jinnī, a contradiction in terms, as angels are created of light (nūr) and are incapable of sin, while jinn are created of fire (nār) and can sin. Traditions on this point are numerous and conflicting: Iblīs was simply a jinnī who inappropriately found himself among the angels in heaven; he was an angel sent to earth to do battle with the rebellious jinn who inhabited earth before humans were created; or Iblīs was himself one of the terrestrial jinn captured by the angels during their attack and brought to heaven. See also shaitan.{SOURCE}

[William]

There is a way to link all these seeming contradictions - so that coherent explanation brings these together...

The step of Jesus away from the Elohim was in order to bring about a more positive understanding of the idea of GOD [ Cataphatic ] - was never to exclude OT ideas of GOD but was done purposefully in order that the process necessary would eventually make the paths come back together as understood by us in this moment of history. [Farsightedness]

I think that the interaction between humans and Elohim was sparse and that earlier on in the evolution of Human beings, stories were created by ourselves, to 'explain' our existence to ourselves, and when Elohim did interact, humans superimposed these mythologies onto Elohim and in doing so, inadvertently made a monster of them.

The Elohim in turn, went along with that path by playing the role - not malevolently - but nonetheless - by revealing themselves to Humans, the scary monster was already involved and manifested through the reveal - Humans jumped to conclusions, and Jesus' task was to blunt the edge off of that particular blade...

[William]

DP

[oldbadger]

There is a way to link all these seeming contradictions - so that coherent explanation brings these together...

The step of Jesus away from the Elohim was in order to bring about a more positive understanding of the idea of GOD [ Cataphatic ] - was never to exclude OT ideas of GOD but was done purposefully in order that the process necessary would eventually make the paths come back together as understood by us in this moment of history. [Farsightedness]

I think that the interaction between humans and Elohim was sparse and that earlier on in the evolution of Human beings, stories were created by ourselves, to 'explain' our existence to ourselves, and when Elohim did interact, humans superimposed these mythologies onto Elohim and in doing so, inadvertently made a monster of them.

The Elohim in turn, went along with that path by playing the role - not malevolently - but nonetheless - by revealing themselves to Humans, the scary monster was already involved and manifested through the reveal - Humans jumped to conclusions, and Jesus' task was to blunt the edge off of that particular blade...

The bible shown in the film, where can it be purchased from?

[Difflugia]

The bible shown in the film, where can it be purchased from?

The title just means "The Holy Scriptures" in modern Greek. Bibles with that title are sometimes translations into modern Greek, but I think that's the Koine Septuagint and New Testament texts approved by the Greek Orthodox Church. I found it at a few online Greek bookstores (like this one), but I couldn't find an ISBN or anything. The publisher is some sort of monastic order of the Greek Orthodox Church, I think?

[JoeyKnothead]

The bible shown in the film, where can it be purchased from?

The title just means "The Holy Scriptures" in modern Greek. Bibles with that title are sometimes translations into modern Greek, but I think that's the Koine Septuagint and New Testament texts approved by the Greek Orthodox Church. I found it at a few online Greek bookstores (like this one), but I couldn't find an ISBN or anything. The publisher is some sort of monastic order of the Greek Orthodox Church, I think?

Good googly moogly how do you do it.

Not even a real question, cause I fear the answer involves forces I don't even wanna know about

[Difflugia]

Good googly moogly how do you do it.

Not even a real question, cause I fear the answer involves forces I don't even wanna know about

A black belt in Google-fu more than anything.

I have an offline browser app with a Greek virtual keyboard, so I entered the title and did a Google Image search: η αγια γραφη. The font is distinctive and most of the hits are for online bookstores. Between them, I found the publisher, "Αδελφότης Θεολόγων «Η Ζωή»". I found a Greek Wikipedia page about them and ran it through Google Translate. The result is sort of understandable, but it reads like a weird entanglement of religion and politics that seemed otherwise unimportant to this discussion.

[William]

The video offers some insight into understanding the OPQ; "CAN ANYONE GIVE GOOD REASON TO BELIEVE YAHWEH IS NOT A DEMON?" re, possibly answers.

[TRANSPONDER]

The bible shown in the film, where can it be purchased from?

The title just means "The Holy Scriptures" in modern Greek. Bibles with that title are sometimes translations into modern Greek, but I think that's the Koine Septuagint and New Testament texts approved by the Greek Orthodox Church. I found it at a few online Greek bookstores (like this one), but I couldn't find an ISBN or anything. The publisher is some sort of monastic order of the Greek Orthodox Church, I think?

Good googly moogly how do you do it.

Not even a real question, cause I fear the answer involves forces I don't even wanna know about

You guys crack me up

[Wootah]

Can anyone give good reason to believe Yahweh is not a demon?


Demand animal sacrifices.
Demand the Hebrew commit genocide for a cultural misunderstanding.
A demon would murder planets because he was having a tantrum.
When the Hebrew's generations were weakened by following it, had them undergo genocides themselves.
A demon would allow Adam and Eve to be corrupted, for reasons opaque. (Perfect beings not intending to sin, sinning.)
A demon would be defeated by a greater power (Satan) yet claim victory.
A demon would turn people to salt for looking back.
A demon would claim to love you, while sending most folks to Hell.
A demon would write a book saying he was good, omnipotent and full of all sorts of propaganda.
A demon would re-name itself "God," to capitalize on the conflation with the benevolence of deities.

...and so on.

Can anyone provide good reason to not suspect Yahweh is a demon?

Personally, I agree. One man's righteous God is another man's horrific demon. I would hold onto this notion and then dig deeper.