is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despair?

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Wootah
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is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despair?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Hi all,

It occurred to me that when everything is going badly in life that 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despair and nihilism.

Without believing in a good God, there is really no reason to believe that life should not be the way it is.

Does anyone want to give some reasons for or against this?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despai

Post #31

Post by Wootah »

brunumb wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:06 pm
1213 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 11:13 am I don't think we have any evidence for that God is not good.
Yes we do, the Bible. While it may contain a lot of things that suggest God is good, there is enough there to show that he is not. A bit like the man living next door for decades who is a wonderful neighbour, goes to church, helps out in the community and so on, but then turns out to be a serial killer. It all depends on what we see and sometimes what we choose not to see.
Do you see that your relativist door swings both ways? You are seeing what you want to see and so nullifying your point?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despai

Post #32

Post by brunumb »

Wootah wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:50 pm
brunumb wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:06 pm
1213 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 11:13 am I don't think we have any evidence for that God is not good.
Yes we do, the Bible. While it may contain a lot of things that suggest God is good, there is enough there to show that he is not. A bit like the man living next door for decades who is a wonderful neighbour, goes to church, helps out in the community and so on, but then turns out to be a serial killer. It all depends on what we see and sometimes what we choose not to see.
Do you see that your relativist door swings both ways? You are seeing what you want to see and so nullifying your point?
I'm happy to accept that. My point is aimed at those choosing to see that Bible God is only ever good.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despai

Post #33

Post by Willum »

Oh, don’t get me started!
1. Life is more wonderful without a divine being. Your logic is crossed.
2. It seems to me that “God” is more of a horrible demon, then anything to venerated or joined in the after-life.
3. Even if you believe the myth, people like Jeffrey Dahmer, even Catholic Hitler, can get to heaven, but somebody who is beatific another religion goes to Hell.

No I am sure that’s enough right now
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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Re: is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despai

Post #34

Post by Wootah »

brunumb wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:00 pm
Wootah wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 7:50 pm
brunumb wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:06 pm
1213 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 11:13 am I don't think we have any evidence for that God is not good.
Yes we do, the Bible. While it may contain a lot of things that suggest God is good, there is enough there to show that he is not. A bit like the man living next door for decades who is a wonderful neighbour, goes to church, helps out in the community and so on, but then turns out to be a serial killer. It all depends on what we see and sometimes what we choose not to see.
Do you see that your relativist door swings both ways? You are seeing what you want to see and so nullifying your point?
I'm happy to accept that. My point is aimed at those choosing to see that Bible God is only ever good.
This is why the OP stands. From inside the system it may all be relative - but then why struggle? Our struggling is evidence for, possibly proof of, the good.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despai

Post #35

Post by Wootah »

Willum wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:23 pm Oh, don’t get me started!
1. Life is more wonderful without a divine being. Your logic is crossed.
2. It seems to me that “God” is more of a horrible demon, then anything to venerated or joined in the after-life.
3. Even if you believe the myth, people like Jeffrey Dahmer, even Catholic Hitler, can get to heaven, but somebody who is beatific another religion goes to Hell.

No I am sure that’s enough right now
I am not sure you are on topic.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despai

Post #36

Post by William »

Wootah wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:08 am
William wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:07 pm
Wootah wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:28 am Without believing in a good God, there is really no reason to believe that life should not be the way it is.
I do not see how it is evident that GOD has to be seen through the filter of "Good or Evil" any more than one has to see the so-called "Problem of Evil" if one is to accept the notion of a mindful creation re the universe, specifically re life on Earth.

"It is what it is" and attaching 'good' or 'evil' to what is, simply muddies the waters.

One can understand that life should be the way that it is without having to also understand that "God is good" - or for that matter, that "God is evil".
If life is what it is - why struggle then?
Because this experiential reality allows for struggle, even to the point where if one does not struggle one can easily forfeit the experience.
The design of this experiential reality has made it that way.
There is nothing fundamentally evil or good about struggle, or the design of the game-board [experiential reality] which implements struggle.

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Re: is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despai

Post #37

Post by Willum »

Wootah wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:33 pm
Willum wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:23 pm Oh, don’t get me started!
1. Life is more wonderful without a divine being. Your logic is crossed.
That is to say, not having a God, is an excellent reason to dismiss nihilism - life and the universe is far more precious and miraculous without a deity. ESPECIALLY IF...
2. It seems to me that “God” is more of a horrible demon, not anything to be venerated or joined in the after-life.
I am not sure why you don't find the idea of spending eternity with something as vile as the God of the OT depressing. It means that the universe was created by something twisted.
3. Even if you believe the myth, people like Jeffrey Dahmer, even Catholic Hitler, can get to heaven, but somebody who is beatific another religion goes to Hell.
So it is the quality of people in Heaven that will be depressing as well. Folks who live a good life are NOT going to be obsessed with going to Heaven the same way these, I'm sure, very repentant monsters would be, and so the good are to some extent less likely to be in Heaven.
Woot said:
I am not sure you are on topic.
I am sure.

Because far from being in accordance with your post:
It occurred to me that when everything is going badly in life that 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despair and nihilism.
Believing in the God of Abraham is a very good reason to despair.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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Re: is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despai

Post #38

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to Willum in post #37]

I think you aren't answering the question. Without some sense of 'the good' being objective regardless of our circumstances ... why struggle? Nihilism seems inevitable.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despai

Post #39

Post by TRANSPONDER »

I wrote a substantial personal memoir on how I looked as nihilism without a god -plan. Not just a creator, but one that looked over us and had a plan for us. so I'll just say. At bottom, even without any reason to Be, I didn't want to not-be. I wanted to live (just through the instinctive fear of death, I suppose). Having looked Nihilism in the face I wondered what to do with my life. The answer came like a lottery win "Whatever you like". I realised that a life where we make our own meanings and plans are far more worthwhile than some divine plan imposed by an invisible Boss.

I know that Nihilism without God' is a favorite apologetic of the Theist but just because they cannot imagine any purpose or meaning in life without a god doing the driving does not mean that nobody else can. Fact is, that the Nihilism apologetic is the limited, blinkered and sadly fettered thinking of the God -believer, just as they cannot imagine we hellbound hedonists finding awe and wonder in nature unless we see it as a huge advert for a god.

"Atheists believe in nothing".

No, we believe in Everything - except gods.

These stop objections, atheists stumpers or Gochas have been answered (though atheists apologists sometimes haven't always heard them) but baseline is, they all fail. I promise you. Argument from morality, argument from reversed burden of proof, argument from Jesus historicity, appeal to unknowns, argument for Bible reliability, argument from personal experiences, appeal to anecdotal miracles and good ol' Pascal's wager - they all fail.

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Re: is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despai

Post #40

Post by Willum »

[Replying to Wootah in post #38]

If your objective good is to sell rape victims to their rapists for 50 shekels, I prefer nihilism.

However, moral absolutism comes about through harm inspired by malice.

If there is harm and malice that is absolute morality. Or weal for its own sake.

Having an abomination as your moral standard is nauseating.

Having nothing is better.

Besides you are neglecting the fact that the thing you are citing as a moral authority, is just giving its opinion, without any reason to believe it has superior credibility.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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