The Terror of God

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Diogenes
Guru
Posts: 1304
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 12:53 pm
Location: Washington
Has thanked: 862 times
Been thanked: 1265 times

The Terror of God

Post #1

Post by Diogenes »

The Terror of God
or Why He is not Here

In the beginning… there was no beginning. There was just God. He was alone and he was perfect. He knew everything. He knew everything that could ever be, would ever happen. And he was alone.

Because he knew everything he knew what he would do and what would happen. He wanted to create, he wanted company, he wanted there to be worlds and worlds of people. He wanted life.

But he knew that he already knew what would happen, what he would create and what every thought of every person would be. Because he already knew it was as if it had happened and was deep in the past. There was no future, no past, there was no point or purpose in creating what he already fully understood because it had already happened. The Past, Present, and Future were One.

This awareness was his terror and his reason for doing nothing. He knew he was to live an eternity alone, that there was no purpose, there was no reason to create that which already fully existed in his memory. He was alone and could create nothing to surprise himself, nothing he did not already know as fully as he new himself. He was alone with nothingness and no reason to create.

He could not even enjoy a joke because he knew the punchline before the joke began.

Proposition for Debate:
There is no God, because if there were, he would not have bothered to create the universe or us. Therefore, does not our very existence prove there is no God?
___________________________________

Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves

— Confucius

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: The Terror of God

Post #2

Post by Miles »

.

So it would seem. And a nice presentation of the problem BTW. One that echos so much of the theology's other bewildering issues that get swept under the rug: If this, then how that?

As for your debate question, 'tis a puzzlement; however, because people can pick and choose what they believe to be Biblically true and dismiss anything that''s troublesome, god's great abilities never surface as problematic. Out of sight out of mind or at least under the rug as it were.


.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: The Terror of God

Post #3

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diogenes wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:42 pm

Proposition for Debate:
There is no God, because if there were, he would not have bothered to create the universe or us.
1. Those that are creative find pleasure in the process regardless of whether or not they know how their work will turn out.

2. Love is never "a bother" and having someone to to love and give things to a is something precious and worthwhile for anyone that knows what love is.


Image
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

LOVE, LIFE, and ... THE DIVINE PERSONALITY
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
Diogenes
Guru
Posts: 1304
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 12:53 pm
Location: Washington
Has thanked: 862 times
Been thanked: 1265 times

Re: The Terror of God

Post #4

Post by Diogenes »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #3]
The problem, as Miles points out, is God's purported omniscience. His 'love' for his creation is self love. Whatever he creates, he already knows in infinite detail, exactly what it will be. For this Biblical 'God' to think is to create. Like Pygmalion he falls in love with his own creation, except that he can't 'fall' in love, because he knows his creation like his own hand.
Now, I've heard of people loving their own hand, but it seems like a shallow thing, not love at all. The joy of love is the differences coming together. With God there are no differences. He knows us before we are born. He knows us better than we will ever know ourselves. Romans 8:27. He knows what we will do. God is all there is. There is nothing else.

Because we actually ARE, and are not God, therefore this impossibly omniscient/omnipontent God can not exist.
___________________________________

Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves

— Confucius

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: The Terror of God

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diogenes wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:58 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #3]
The problem, as Miles points out, is God's purported omniscience. ... Whatever he creates, he already knows in infinite detail, exactly what it will be.
I do not agree.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

FREE WILL, OMNISCIENCE and ...SELECTIVE FOREKNOWLEDGE
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: The Terror of God

Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Diogenes wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:58 pm...except that he can't 'fall' in love, because he knows his creation like his own hand.
You cannot love someone you know ?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

TRANSPONDER
Savant
Posts: 7956
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 931 times
Been thanked: 3484 times

Re: The Terror of God

Post #7

Post by TRANSPONDER »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:37 pm
Diogenes wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:58 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #3]
The problem, as Miles points out, is God's purported omniscience. ... Whatever he creates, he already knows in infinite detail, exactly what it will be.
I do not agree.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

FREE WILL, OMNISCIENCE and ...SELECTIVE FOREKNOWLEDGE
There's a problem. Why would a God who had foreknowledge of everything so as to construct the best possible plan with the right outcome, select what he wants to know and what not? It sure looks like a being that doesn't know what's going on. But it's worse. He repents of the Flood. He doesn't EVER know that slavery is unacceptable. The Bible contains things that are wrong. He gets talked out of destroying a city by a simple rhetorical trick (Gen.9. 26-33).

I'm sure that an adroit apologist can come up with excuses, but the simple and obvious answer seems to me the best one - it was all written by men who didn't know better.

You know this makes sense and only a desire to maintain Faith stops you from accepting that.

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: The Terror of God

Post #8

Post by Miles »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 5:29 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:37 pm
Diogenes wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 3:58 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #3]
The problem, as Miles points out, is God's purported omniscience. ... Whatever he creates, he already knows in infinite detail, exactly what it will be.
I do not agree.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

FREE WILL, OMNISCIENCE and ...SELECTIVE FOREKNOWLEDGE
There's a problem. Why would a God who had foreknowledge of everything so as to construct the best possible plan with the right outcome, select what he wants to know and what not? It sure looks like a being that doesn't know what's going on. But it's worse. He repents of the Flood. He doesn't EVER know that slavery is unacceptable. The Bible contains things that are wrong. He gets talked out of destroying a city by a simple rhetorical trick (Gen.9. 26-33).

I'm sure that an adroit apologist can come up with excuses, but the simple and obvious answer seems to me the best one - it was all written by men who didn't know better.

You know this makes sense and only a desire to maintain Faith stops you from accepting that.
Doesn't it though. Just look at all the mistakes god has made.


Genesis 6:6 ICB
The Lord was sorry he had made human beings on the earth. His heart was filled with pain.


Amos 7:6 KJ21
The Lord repented concerning this. “This also shall not be,” saith the Lord God.


Exodus 32:14 KJV
And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.


1 Samuel 15:35 CEV
Even though Samuel felt sad about Saul, Samuel never saw him again. The Lord was sorry he had made Saul the king of Israel


Jeremiah 42:10 GNV
If ye will dwell in this land, then I will build you, and not destroy you, and I will plant you, and not root you out: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.


Amos 7:1-3 KJ21
The Lord God showed me this: He was forming a swarm of locusts at the time the spring crop first began to sprout—after the cutting of the king’s hay.
2And it came to pass, when they had made an end of eating the grass of the land, then I said, “O Lord God, forgive, I beseech Thee! By whom shall Jacob arise? For he is small.”
3The Lord repented concerning this. “It shall not be,” saith the Lord.


Jonah 3:10 GNV
And God saw their works that they turned from their evil ways: and God repented of the evil that he had said that he would do unto them, and he did it not.


POINT BEING: When one repents, regrets, or is sorry for what they have done, that act (doing) qualifies as a mistake. In the cases here, things god should not have done, but did anyway.


.
Last edited by Miles on Wed May 25, 2022 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
brunumb
Savant
Posts: 5993
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 6607 times
Been thanked: 3209 times

Re: The Terror of God

Post #9

Post by brunumb »

Diogenes wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:42 pm In the beginning… there was no beginning. There was just God. He was alone and he was perfect. He knew everything. He knew everything that could ever be, would ever happen. And he was alone.
Before he allegedly created human company there were angels weren't there? How do they figure in the story?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

User avatar
Diogenes
Guru
Posts: 1304
Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 12:53 pm
Location: Washington
Has thanked: 862 times
Been thanked: 1265 times

Re: The Terror of God

Post #10

Post by Diogenes »

brunumb wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 8:16 pm
Diogenes wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:42 pm In the beginning… there was no beginning. There was just God. He was alone and he was perfect. He knew everything. He knew everything that could ever be, would ever happen. And he was alone.
Before he allegedly created human company there were angels weren't there? How do they figure in the story?
:) Good question! I have long thought the fables about angels and demons only cheapen the story of this God of Gods, THE God of monotheism. I see it as the influence of pagan polytheism on the 'pure' monotheism of at least one thread of the Hebrew religion. The 'angels and demons' and 'powers and principalities' mentioned in the Bible only argue against the 'special' status touted by the Judaeo-Christian tradition.

It's fables and myths all the way down. ;)
___________________________________

Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves

— Confucius

Post Reply