The Terror of God

Argue for and against Christianity

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Diogenes
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The Terror of God

Post #1

Post by Diogenes »

The Terror of God
or Why He is not Here

In the beginning… there was no beginning. There was just God. He was alone and he was perfect. He knew everything. He knew everything that could ever be, would ever happen. And he was alone.

Because he knew everything he knew what he would do and what would happen. He wanted to create, he wanted company, he wanted there to be worlds and worlds of people. He wanted life.

But he knew that he already knew what would happen, what he would create and what every thought of every person would be. Because he already knew it was as if it had happened and was deep in the past. There was no future, no past, there was no point or purpose in creating what he already fully understood because it had already happened. The Past, Present, and Future were One.

This awareness was his terror and his reason for doing nothing. He knew he was to live an eternity alone, that there was no purpose, there was no reason to create that which already fully existed in his memory. He was alone and could create nothing to surprise himself, nothing he did not already know as fully as he new himself. He was alone with nothingness and no reason to create.

He could not even enjoy a joke because he knew the punchline before the joke began.

Proposition for Debate:
There is no God, because if there were, he would not have bothered to create the universe or us. Therefore, does not our very existence prove there is no God?
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Re: The Terror of God

Post #21

Post by William »

[Replying to Diogenes in post #4]
Because we actually ARE, and are not God, therefore this impossibly omniscient/omnipontent God can not exist.
It appears that here, you are relying upon an image of GOD which we can agree comes through the particular culture you and I came through experience of.

I see also that you have included the factor of all-powerfulness too.

Critique of this image has merit, but no merit if the critique is simply focused on GOD not existing.
Diogenes: For this Biblical 'God' to think is to create.
Thus it could be argued that we are within and experiencing the thoughts of GOD and what we experience and call "reality" is actually GOD thinking thoughts.
Diogenes: Because we actually ARE, and are not God, therefore this impossibly omniscient/omnipontent God can not exist.
Unless we are actually GOD, in which case GOD can exist.

Biblically this idea of "The Breath of GOD" equates to GOD-Consciousness giving life to the imagined forms and thus experiencing those form from those forms particular subjective places in the overall thoughts of GOD.

This concept also bleeds over into the Eastern Culture of Humanity - many of which already stipulate GOD inseparable from Creation...although it could also be said that Creation is inseparable from GOD.

An all-powerful GODs thoughts could create this Universe...

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Re: The Terror of God

Post #22

Post by TRANSPONDER »

That does actually resonate with me. The thing is, that everything appears to be near nothing arranged in working order. Some say this is arranged and ordered by a Cosmic Mind, and others say that it IS the Cosmic Mind. Either is possible.

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Re: The Terror of God

Post #23

Post by Wootah »

Diogenes wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:42 pm The Terror of God
or Why He is not Here

In the beginning… there was no beginning. There was just God. He was alone and he was perfect. He knew everything. He knew everything that could ever be, would ever happen. And he was alone.

Because he knew everything he knew what he would do and what would happen. He wanted to create, he wanted company, he wanted there to be worlds and worlds of people. He wanted life.

But he knew that he already knew what would happen, what he would create and what every thought of every person would be. Because he already knew it was as if it had happened and was deep in the past. There was no future, no past, there was no point or purpose in creating what he already fully understood because it had already happened. The Past, Present, and Future were One.

This awareness was his terror and his reason for doing nothing. He knew he was to live an eternity alone, that there was no purpose, there was no reason to create that which already fully existed in his memory. He was alone and could create nothing to surprise himself, nothing he did not already know as fully as he new himself. He was alone with nothingness and no reason to create.

He could not even enjoy a joke because he knew the punchline before the joke began.

Proposition for Debate:
There is no God, because if there were, he would not have bothered to create the universe or us. Therefore, does not our very existence prove there is no God?
I don't see any logical reason for what you say being true. Specifically as to God feeling terror or being along or that there was no purpose. I think most of life is looking at others and seeing ourselves in them. This is your reflection not God's. I made a post on the despair and nihilism you are expressing when we do not believe God is good. For your own sake - take that notion of God is good and embed it in your life.

Even your line about joke is not true. Many people laugh at their own jokes. I find the more I know a joke and really get it the funnier it is.

Our existence proves God is love, loves you and is good.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: The Terror of God

Post #24

Post by brunumb »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 pm That does actually resonate with me. The thing is, that everything appears to be near nothing arranged in working order. Some say this is arranged and ordered by a Cosmic Mind, and others say that it IS the Cosmic Mind. Either is possible.
Who or what is this responding to? It helps of you identify the poster or simply use the reply button on the bottom right hand side (without quote) rather than the general reply button on the bottom left. O:)
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: The Terror of God

Post #25

Post by Diogenes »

I just thanked you all for your posts as a way of saying I appreciate the responses even tho' I don't necessarily agree with them... and to try to establish I am not being argumentative when I reiterate something in the OP.

When I wrote about 'the terror of God,' I was genuinely trying to put myself in the position of what I imagined a truly all powerful and all knowing God might think before creating the universe, especially with sentient beings to dwell in it.
The utter... absolute solitude of such a being... of being such a being... truly frightens me. It would be a terror I could not bear to consider that I alone exist... that there would be no way to change that... no way to fool myself by creating others who would be independent souls, whose thoughts were not totally my own creation... unknown to me... that there could be no surprises forever.

It seems to me it would be like filling endless rooms with an infinity of empty chairs... mere objects I could not truly love and that could not love me... that there would be no point to it. Well, I suppose it is just a fantasy. If there is such a God defined by such absolutes of knowledge and power, such a being would be beyond our imagining. In the end, all I have is my own gut reaction of the impossibility of such a thing. I suppose that is a good thing because to truly imagine it would invite the very terror I projected.
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Re: The Terror of God

Post #26

Post by TRANSPONDER »

brunumb wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:23 pm
TRANSPONDER wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 pm That does actually resonate with me. The thing is, that everything appears to be near nothing arranged in working order. Some say this is arranged and ordered by a Cosmic Mind, and others say that it IS the Cosmic Mind. Either is possible.
Who or what is this responding to? It helps of you identify the poster or simply use the reply button on the bottom right hand side (without quote) rather than the general reply button on the bottom left. O:)
post #21. I will try to ensure that I reference the post one way or another.

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Re: The Terror of God

Post #27

Post by William »

William wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:00 pm [Replying to Diogenes in post #4]
Because we actually ARE, and are not God, therefore this impossibly omniscient/omnipontent God can not exist.
It appears that here, you are relying upon an image of GOD which we can agree comes through the particular culture you and I came through experience of.

I see also that you have included the factor of all-powerfulness too.

Critique of this image has merit, but no merit if the critique is simply focused on GOD not existing.
Diogenes: For this Biblical 'God' to think is to create.
Thus it could be argued that we are within and experiencing the thoughts of GOD and what we experience and call "reality" is actually GOD thinking thoughts.
Diogenes: Because we actually ARE, and are not God, therefore this impossibly omniscient/omnipontent God can not exist.
Unless we are actually GOD, in which case GOD can exist.

Biblically this idea of "The Breath of GOD" equates to GOD-Consciousness giving life to the imagined forms and thus experiencing those form from those forms particular subjective places in the overall thoughts of GOD.

This concept also bleeds over into the Eastern Culture of Humanity - many of which already stipulate GOD inseparable from Creation...although it could also be said that Creation is inseparable from GOD.

An all-powerful GODs thoughts could create this Universe...

viewtopic.php?p=1079719#p1079719
TRANSPONDER wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 pm That does actually resonate with me. The thing is, that everything appears to be near nothing arranged in working order. Some say this is arranged and ordered by a Cosmic Mind, and others say that it IS the Cosmic Mind. Either is possible.
If I am understanding you correctly, it seems to me that there is no necessity to separate the activity of a Cosmic Mind from the Cosmic Mind.

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Re: The Terror of God

Post #28

Post by William »

[Replying to Diogenes in post #25]
The utter... absolute solitude of such a being... of being such a being... truly frightens me. It would be a terror I could not bear to consider that I alone exist... that there would be no way to change that... no way to fool myself by creating others who would be independent souls, whose thoughts were not totally my own creation... unknown to me... that there could be no surprises forever.
If the being is all-powerful, then there would be a way in which it could fool itself, and the existence of this reality we are experiencing would be evidence of such a way being found.

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Re: The Terror of God

Post #29

Post by Tcg »

William wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 2:25 pm [Replying to Diogenes in post #25]

If the being is all-powerful, then there would be a way in which it could fool itself,...
Ah, yes. An all-powerful being smart enough to fool itself. The steps that must be taken to justify the idea of an all-powerful being are both astounding and amusing. I enjoy reading them.


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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

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Re: The Terror of God

Post #30

Post by William »

Tcg wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 2:57 pm
William wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 2:25 pm [Replying to Diogenes in post #25]

If the being is all-powerful, then there would be a way in which it could fool itself,...
Ah, yes. An all-powerful being smart enough to fool itself. The steps that must be taken to justify the idea of an all-powerful being are both astounding and amusing. I enjoy reading them.


Tcg
viewtopic.php?p=1080075#p1080075

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