This is certainly not true of all Christians, but there is a subset that rejects the findings of science because they perceive that in some cases these findings conflict with a literal reading of scripture. The age of the earth is a good example. Some claim it is around 6,000 years old. Scientific calculations place it at around 4.5 billion. Evolution is another scientific finding that often gets rejected because it seemingly conflicts with the Genesis story of creation.
Are there other religions that have a subset of its followers who reject scientific findings or is Christianity alone in this?
Tcg
Is Christianity alone in this?
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Is Christianity alone in this?
Post #1To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Re: Is Christianity alone in this?
Post #11Jesus Christ did not believe in evolution. He considered Adam and Eve to be real people created directly by God.
Mat. 19:4 In reply he said: “Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female 5 and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.”
The person who believes in that doctrine (evolution) does not believe in the same thing that Jesus believed.
Mat. 19:4 In reply he said: “Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female 5 and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.”
The person who believes in that doctrine (evolution) does not believe in the same thing that Jesus believed.
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Re: Is Christianity alone in this?
Post #12I would gather Jesus had no idea what the topic of evolution even was. And well, if He actually did believe in an actual Adam and Eve, then I guess he was misinformed there too.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Is Christianity alone in this?
Post #13I'm sure they do all accept speciation. They may differ on the mechanism, but I'm sure they all agree on the fact.POI wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 1:25 pmYou did not answer my question. I will post it again at the bottom.Eloi wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 12:12 pmYou can call species whatever you want. Changing definitions doesn't change a thing in the reality, just how you want to perceive it.
An ordinary person, such as a peasant/countryman, would know which animals can breed with each other and which cannot. The ones that cannot be crossed are obviously different species. That is not changed by any kind of definition of "speciation". Nature commands, not vocabulary.
Furthermore, I'm no evolutionary biologist. And by the looks of your response, you aren't either. But I'm willing to wager that evolutionary biologists all accept 'speciation'.
Do you know what he topic of speciation is?
Now to the original post:
(You) Scientists themselves often do not agree with each other.
(Me) You mean to tell me not all evolutionary biologists accept speciation?
Thank you. Yes, I don't doubt that some persons in various religions may doubt evolution. I was in fact rather surprised to find out how many religious bodies do accept it.historia wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 1:28 pmRight, denial of evolution is not a view you'll find expressed among Conservative or Reformed Jews. It appears to be held among some Orthodox Jews, however. The article I linked to in my previous reply provides some info on that.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 1:20 pmConservative Judaism embraces science as a way to learn about the world,[citation needed] and, like Modern Orthodox and Reform Judaism, has not found the theory of evolution a challenge to traditional Jewish theology.
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Re: Is Christianity alone in this?
Post #14More accurate question; are there other religions that find so called "scientific findings" inaccurate and/or unscientific as Christianity does?Tcg wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:17 pm This is certainly not true of all Christians, but there is a subset that rejects the findings of science because they perceive that in some cases these findings conflict with a literal reading of scripture. The age of the earth is a good example. Some claim it is around 6,000 years old. Scientific calculations place it at around 4.5 billion. Evolution is another scientific finding that often gets rejected because it seemingly conflicts with the Genesis story of creation.
Are there other religions that have a subset of its followers who reject scientific findings or is Christianity alone in this?
Tcg
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Re: Is Christianity alone in this?
Post #15You are incorrect about how the Hebrew is being used. The term 'Yom' means on day. It also can be used as a period of time yes, but not how was used in the book of Genesis. Yom can be an indeterminate when being used as a past.. such as 'in those day' .. or 'in the days of Moses', or 'In the days of Washington'. When you look at how Yom is used in Genesis, it is precisely defined. 'It was day and it was night, and it was the xxx day'. This is precisely defining the day 'yom' as a 24 hour period.Eloi wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 11:57 am Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the biblical account of creation. We believe that the creative days did not last only 24 hours each, but were 6 stages that may have lasted thousands of years each, because the word "day" in Hebrew can mean "age".
The Bible specifies that when God created each animal, he made it "according to its kind," and that implies that although there may be adaptive changes in species, no species becomes another over time. The facts show that this is the reality.
As for the entire Universe, the Bible does not say when it was created. It only says that when the earth began to be transformed there were already other celestial bodies as well as other types of living spirit beings that rejoiced in this type of creation on the planet. Creative days only talk about the time the planet was transformed and life placed on it, not about the origin of the entire universe.
So we do not have to deny what science discovers about the time of existence of the entire Universe. We cannot be dogmatic about what the Bible does not reveal, nor do we have to believe everything science says either as if everything they say were absolute truth, because they tend to change over time, and there are usually contemporary theories that are completely contradictory. Scientists themselves often do not agree with each other.
You can perfectly believe in an indistinct period, but when you try to make it 'creative days lasting thousand of years', that is not what the book of Genesis says.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
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Re: Is Christianity alone in this?
Post #16Of course Jesus didn't. The concept of biological evolution did many hundreds of years later. However, the bible is not a science book.Eloi wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 2:09 pm Jesus Christ did not believe in evolution. He considered Adam and Eve to be real people created directly by God.
Mat. 19:4 In reply he said: “Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female 5 and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.”
The person who believes in that doctrine (evolution) does not believe in the same thing that Jesus believed.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
Steven Novella
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Re: Is Christianity alone in this?
Post #17What facts are those?Eloi wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 11:57 am Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the biblical account of creation. We believe that the creative days did not last only 24 hours each, but were 6 stages that may have lasted thousands of years each, because the word "day" in Hebrew can mean "age".
The Bible specifies that when God created each animal, he made it "according to its kind," and that implies that although there may be adaptive changes in species, no species becomes another over time. The facts show that this is the reality.
As for the entire Universe, the Bible does not say when it was created. It only says that when the earth began to be transformed there were already other celestial bodies as well as other types of living spirit beings that rejoiced in this type of creation on the planet. Creative days only talk about the time the planet was transformed and life placed on it, not about the origin of the entire universe.
So we do not have to deny what science discovers about the time of existence of the entire Universe. We cannot be dogmatic about what the Bible does not reveal, nor do we have to believe everything science says either as if everything they say were absolute truth, because they tend to change over time, and there are usually contemporary theories that are completely contradictory. Scientists themselves often do not agree with each other.
Where are "creative days that talk" in the Bible?
And considering that Genesis 1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." why wouldn't the "creative days" include the origin of the universe? After all, the heavens are said to contain celestial bodies including the Sun.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Ge 1:1) Thus the heavens with their celestial bodies, including the sun . . . ."
source
Celestial Body
plural celestial bodies also celestial objects
Definition of celestial body
: an aggregation of matter in the universe (such as a planet, star, or nebula) that can be considered as a single unit (as for astronomical study)
plural celestial bodies also celestial objects
Definition of celestial body
: an aggregation of matter in the universe (such as a planet, star, or nebula) that can be considered as a single unit (as for astronomical study)
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Re: Is Christianity alone in this?
Post #18More pertinent is: "Are there any religions that can address science enough for their opinions on it to be worth hearing?"We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 12:05 amMore accurate question; are there other religions that find so called "scientific findings" inaccurate and/or unscientific as Christianity does?Tcg wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:17 pm This is certainly not true of all Christians, but there is a subset that rejects the findings of science because they perceive that in some cases these findings conflict with a literal reading of scripture. The age of the earth is a good example. Some claim it is around 6,000 years old. Scientific calculations place it at around 4.5 billion. Evolution is another scientific finding that often gets rejected because it seemingly conflicts with the Genesis story of creation.
Are there other religions that have a subset of its followers who reject scientific findings or is Christianity alone in this?
Tcg
Looking at some of the posts form the believers above, there's this odd idea that if the Bible says something that disagrees with science, the science must be wrong. And yet we also see an effort to massage the Bible into the scientific framework.
The old, weary, often refuted stock snarks at science 'It's always changing its' mind' merely show how they do not understand science and do not want to. It is the thing that is wrong with Faith-based thinking as distinct from evidence -based thinking. To have a view that is willing to adapt to the evidence is logically better than dogmatic clinging to a Belief, no matter what the evidence is. And yet we see that some try to adapt the belief to the science while still pretending that the belief is right. Notably pretending that the 'Days' of Genesis can be the age of the universe (14 billion years or so) divided into 7 and call each a day, and never mind that Genesis talks of morning and evening, light and dark and the sun and moon made later to mark them. Do they think atheists don't know how to read?
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Re: Is Christianity alone in this?
Post #19[Replying to Tcg in post #1]
I've appreciated reading the many contributions to this topic so far. It is interesting that the only religions identified so far are Abrahamic ones. I was curious about others, specifically Hinduism and Buddhism and found the following quite interesting:
Tcg
I've appreciated reading the many contributions to this topic so far. It is interesting that the only religions identified so far are Abrahamic ones. I was curious about others, specifically Hinduism and Buddhism and found the following quite interesting:
So, it seems that Buddhists and Muslims don't see a conflict between scientific findings and their religions, but fear that some scientific technologies might interfere with what they view as specific religious expectations. This is quite surprising to me and not something I expected to be an issue. I wonder if any Christians have similar fears.On the Intersection of Science and Religion
The relationship between science and religion is often viewed in a Western context and through a Christian perspective. We turned to Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists for a different view
Hindu interviewees generally took a different tack, describing science and religion as overlapping spheres. Many Hindus maintained that their religion contains elements of science, and that Hinduism long ago identified concepts that were later illuminated by science. Buddhist interviewees generally described religion and science as two separate and unrelated spheres. Several talked about their religion as offering guidance on how to live a moral life while describing science as observable phenomena. Often, they could not name any areas of scientific research that concerned them for religious reasons.
Some members of all three religious groups, however, did express religious concerns when asked to consider specific kinds of biotechnology research, such as gene editing to change a baby’s genetic characteristics and efforts to clone animals. For example, Muslim interviewees said cloning would tamper with the power of God, and some Hindus and Buddhists voiced concern that these scientific developments might interfere with karma or reincarnation.
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/trend/arch ... d-religion
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Re: Is Christianity alone in this?
Post #20Cool. Let me answer that pertinent question; Yeah. Christianity.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 2:41 am More pertinent is: "Are there any religions that can address science enough for their opinions on it to be worth hearing?"
"There's this idea that if the Bible says something that disagrees with science, the Bible must be wrong".TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 2:41 am Looking at some of the posts form the believers above, there's this odd idea that if the Bible says something that disagrees with science, the science must be wrong. And yet we also see an effort to massage the Bible into the scientific framework.
I can play that game, too.
"They are stupid. They just dont understand science. Atheists are the only ones who can understand science. We are so smart, and they are so dumb".The old, weary, often refuted stock snarks at science 'It's always changing its' mind' merely show how they do not understand science and do not want to.
That's what I got out of it. As untrue and arrogant as it is.
Well, when you provide some evidence, I will think about it.It is the thing that is wrong with Faith-based thinking as distinct from evidence -based thinking.
Debate for another day.To have a view that is willing to adapt to the evidence is logically better than dogmatic clinging to a Belief, no matter what the evidence is. And yet we see that some try to adapt the belief to the science while still pretending that the belief is right. Notably pretending that the 'Days' of Genesis can be the age of the universe (14 billion years or so) divided into 7 and call each a day, and never mind that Genesis talks of morning and evening, light and dark and the sun and moon made later to mark them. Do they think atheists don't know how to read?
All I know is; God created the heavens and the earth.
Now, however many days yall wanna debate that it was created in, I will leave you all to it.
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