Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

[Diogenes]

In the post "Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?" posting.php?mode=quote&f=8&p=1073778
I wrote:

When they finally "get it" and realize most of them are Christians mainly because of childhood indoctrination and step out of the bondage of fantasy they were taught at an early age, then they are embarrassed or angry or both. ... and it has little to do with the reasons stated in post #1.

This suggests the current topic, 'Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children.'

In support of this proposition I quote from the Southern Nazarene University website,
http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/ages.htm where they claim 85% of Christians have their conversion experience ("are saved") at ages 4 to 14 and only 4% after the age of 30.

Parenthetically I note the human brain does not fully develop until about age 25.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/

[TRANSPONDER]

I suppose I'm an atheist because I was raised as an atheist. However, I don't sweat it because All Theismmmsms had a chance to make their pitch, including 50 shades of Christianity, plus Islam a couple of times. But the fact is that the more I considered their claims, the better the doubts and questions looked, and the more I got into it, the less actual evidence and substance I saw and the more craftiness and intellectual dishonesty.

"You may mock! You may Jeer!! But let me tell you Sir, the day is coming when Jesus shall come In Pow'r (1) upon the clouds and you'll repent and be sorry you didn't listen to me!"


(1) It's like electricity, but not plugged into anything.

[Diogenes]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #2]
I admire those who were raised in it and somehow broke free. When evangelicals find out I used to be one they frequently ask why I no longer believe. Sometimes I just say, "I read too much."

[Jose Fly]

I admire those who were raised in it and somehow broke free.

More and more I think of myself as...well...weird. I must be weird because despite being raised in evangelical Christianity my entire childhood, I never believed it. There were times I found it interesting and curious, but I can't recall any time when I actually believed it.

I must be weird.

When evangelicals find out I used to be one they frequently ask why I no longer believe. Sometimes I just say, "I read too much."

Not that long ago I was camping with some family friends (all Christians) and one night around the fire one of the other dads just blurted out to me "Why aren't you a Christian?" Rather than give a pat answer, I decided to explain. I started off by saying "It simply does not make sense to me at all", and I then walked through the chronology of the Bible...God's creation, the Fall, the flood, the Tower of Babel, the birth/death/resurrection of Jesus, and the end times. When I was done, I asked "How in the world does that make any sense? Especially as a way a so-called 'god' does things!"

The other dad stared ahead for a few seconds and eventually said "Wow, you sure do think like a scientist". I wasn't sure if that was a compliment, an insult, or just a way to wave away my argument, so I replied with something like "Well I guess I'm in the right profession then" and we all laughed.

When I want to give a shorter answer I just say "It makes no sense to me" and leave it at that. I only go into the more detailed response if the person prods me to explain.

Anyways....I'm not sure I have a point other than to share yet another story.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #2]
I admire those who were raised in it and somehow broke free. When evangelicals find out I used to be one they frequently ask why I no longer believe. Sometimes I just say, "I read too much."

I am always in admiration of those who reason their way out. It was made easy for me, since as the religious know, if you can make the household religious, they have won half the conversion battle. The case of Rachel Slick was always the example. Raised in a religion, she first ran up against atheists in college, tried to argue from the Bible and found the Bible didn't really work - If you take the doubts and questions seriously. If the believer simply accepts the excuses, then they stay converted. It isn't even the work involved, but being willing to consider fairly that's the seed of deconversion.

[bjs1]

When they finally "get it" and realize most of them are Christians mainly because of childhood indoctrination and step out of the bondage of fantasy they were taught at an early age, then they are embarrassed or angry or both.

I find this statement interesting.

Just as most Christians are Christians mainly because of childhood indoctrination, most atheists are atheists mainly because of childhood indoctrination. (Obviously I don’t mean literal indoctrination in either case. Rather, I use the term “indoctrination” in the way that this thread uses it to refer to what most people call “parenting.”)

You claim that when most former Christians stepped out of the “bondage of fantasy” into what they believed to be the truth of atheism they were embarrassed, angry or both.

On the other hand, when most former atheists stepped out of the “bondage of fantasy” into what they believed to be the truth of Christ they were overjoyed, filled with peace or both.

I wonder why leaving Christianity accompanies anger and embarrassment, while leaving atheism accompanies joy and peace.

[Diogenes]

When they finally "get it" and realize most of them are Christians mainly because of childhood indoctrination and step out of the bondage of fantasy they were taught at an early age, then they are embarrassed or angry or both.

I find this statement interesting.

Just as most Christians are Christians mainly because of childhood indoctrination, most atheists are atheists mainly because of childhood indoctrination.

Let's stop right there. You've made a claim, but offered no support for it. I showed data from a Christian University that shows most Christians became Christians in childhood. You have given ZERO support for your claim that atheists became atheists in childhood or because of "atheist indoctrination." Do you have ANY data to support your wild speculation?

You might also keep in mind that most nonbelievers are not "atheists." They simply are not religiously affiliated or are agnostic.

But back to the data, 63% of 'teens' aged 13-17 identify as Christian, but only 6% of them identify as 'atheist.' Interestingly, this is 50% higher than their parents. In other words, one third of teenage atheists did not have parents who were atheists.
So, not only did you show nothing to support your spurious claim, the facts show you are just plain wrong.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/20 ... eens-01-0/

Children are born atheists. They are not born believing in God. That has to be taught. Some call it child abuse. The 'MIND CONTROL' techniques churches use are very well known:
Mind Control Techniques:

1. Mandatory, regular attendance
2. Big, fancy, majestic buildings
3. Hierarchical leadership
4. Charismatic leaders
5. Trance stimulation
6. Repetitive drills (and consequences for nonconformity)
7. Separating the believers (the in crowd) from the non believers
8. The call to action is to entrench yourself in the group and base your life on its doctrine.
9. The charismatic leader manipulates your emotions
10. You’re given an ultimatum
11. You’re encouraged to humiliate yourself and mimic others
12. You’re asked for money, and your worth is tied to the amount of money you give.
13. Socializing with the in crowd
14. Using indoctrination techniques in your own time and policing your peers
15. Recruitment
https://churchandstate.org.uk/2016/11/1 ... cults-use/

Summer church camps are notorious for their 'shock conversion,' peer pressure techniques. Maybe there are some, but I've never heard of summer camps designed to make people atheists. But maybe they are a good idea. Some religious kids would benefit from some deprogramming.

[bjs1]

Let's stop right there. You've made a claim, but offered no support for it. I showed data from a Christian University that shows most Christians became Christians in childhood. You have given ZERO support for your claim that atheists became atheists in childhood or because of "atheist indoctrination." Do you have ANY data to support your wild speculation?

You might also keep in mind that most nonbelievers are not "atheists." They simply are not religiously affiliated or are agnostic.

But back to the data, 63% of 'teens' aged 13-17 identify as Christian, but only 6% of them identify as 'atheist.' Interestingly, this is 50% higher than their parents. In other words, one third of teenage atheists did not have parents who were atheists.
So, not only did you show nothing to support your spurious claim, the facts show you are just plain wrong.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/20 ... eens-01-0/

I had not originally supported the claim because it is so well known that I am surprised you bothered to question it. The most recent in a long line of studies that I am aware of was the 2021 study published in Social Psychological and Personality Science.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 0621994001

The study found that:
“Of key predictors of religious disbelief, witnessing fewer credible cultural cues of religious commitment was the most potent, β = .28, followed distantly by reflective cognitive style, β = .13, and less advanced mentalizing, β = .05. Low cultural exposure predicted about 90% higher odds of atheism than did peak cognitive reflection, and cognitive reflection only predicted disbelief among those relatively low in cultural exposure to religion.”

Put simply, being raised by non-religious parents is far and away the most importance influence in children growing up to be non-religious. The idea that a person later in life decides that Christianity (or any other religion) is false happens 90% less often, and even then almost always comes into play only when that person had “relatively low cultural exposure to religion” (that is, when the person is raised by parents who call themselves Christians but live like non-Christians).

Children are born atheists. They are not born believing in God. That has to be taught. Some call it child abuse. The 'MIND CONTROL' techniques churches use are very well known:
Mind Control Techniques:

1. Mandatory, regular attendance
2. Big, fancy, majestic buildings
3. Hierarchical leadership
4. Charismatic leaders
5. Trance stimulation
6. Repetitive drills (and consequences for nonconformity)
7. Separating the believers (the in crowd) from the non believers
8. The call to action is to entrench yourself in the group and base your life on its doctrine.
9. The charismatic leader manipulates your emotions
10. You’re given an ultimatum
11. You’re encouraged to humiliate yourself and mimic others
12. You’re asked for money, and your worth is tied to the amount of money you give.
13. Socializing with the in crowd
14. Using indoctrination techniques in your own time and policing your peers
15. Recruitment
https://churchandstate.org.uk/2016/11/1 ... cults-use/

You know that mind control isn’t real, right? It’s the stuffy of spy novels and soap operas. Even the hard-core CIA and North Korea stuff of the 1950’s (which involved way more serious stuff than this rather silly list) still concluded brainwashing and mind control are “fantasy.”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180963400/

“The notion of brainwashing, no less than radicalization, often obscure[s] far more than it reveal[s],” write Sarah Marks and Daniel Pick of the Hidden Persuaders project. “Both terms could be a lazy way of refusing to inquire further into individual histories.”

[Diogenes]

I had not originally supported the claim because it is so well known that I am surprised you bothered to question it. The most recent in a long line of studies that I am aware of was the 2021 study published in Social Psychological and Personality Science.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/1 ... 0621994001

The study found that:
“Of key predictors of religious disbelief, witnessing fewer credible cultural cues of religious commitment was the most potent, β = .28, followed distantly by reflective cognitive style, β = .13, and less advanced mentalizing, β = .05. Low cultural exposure predicted about 90% higher odds of atheism than did peak cognitive reflection, and cognitive reflection only predicted disbelief among those relatively low in cultural exposure to religion.”

Put simply, being raised by non-religious parents is far and away the most importance influence in children growing up to be non-religious. The idea that a person later in life decides that Christianity (or any other religion) is false happens 90% less often, and even then almost always comes into play only when that person had “relatively low cultural exposure to religion” (that is, when the person is raised by parents who call themselves Christians but live like non-Christians).

Since the article you cited does not actually support your assertion, you 'summarized' it to fit your false claim.
"Witnessing fewer credible cultural cues of religious commitment" does not equate to "atheist indoctrination." It simply means they were exposed to fewer "religious cues." In other words, they received less religious information or indoctrination.
No one is going around trying to convince children to be atheists; they are simply not trying to convince them to believe in religion.

YOUR claim was that they were "indoctrinated" by atheists or atheism. You have yet to show anything about "atheist indoctrination." This is not surprising because IT DOES NOT EXIST. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods.

The study you cite actually substantiates what I wrote; that people become religious (at least 85% of the time) only because they are taught to be so at an early, impressionable age. Atheism results from a LACK of religious indoctrination. Non belief in fairies, gods, goblins, demons, angels and other supernatural claptrap is the default position. No one is taught to not believe in nonsense; rather one has to be taught to believe in it. It's like racism or any other prejudice. It has to be taught.

[1213]

In the post "Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?" posting.php?mode=quote&f=8&p=1073778
I wrote:

When they finally "get it" and realize most of them are Christians mainly because of childhood indoctrination and step out of the bondage of fantasy they were taught at an early age, then they are embarrassed or angry or both. ... and it has little to do with the reasons stated in post #1.

This suggests the current topic, 'Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children.'

...

I don't really believe that. I think many are namely Christians, because they were born in "Christian" society. But to be indoctrinated, I think one should know the teachings and by what I see, very few know the teachings of Jesus really. So, instead of word "indoctrinated", I would use word "labelled".