That a man, or men were brought back from the dead is often trivialized, by saying “God can do anything.“
Resurrection, is practically, very difficult. It would be easier to blacken 1000 stars, have a married bachelor, create a triangle with angles whose sum exceeds 180, and so on, than it would be to resurrect a body three days dead.
I find the statement, “God can do anything,” intellectually lazy, and as a justification, poor, one any eight-year-old could come up with, and write it in a book.
Further, for all of its impossibility, it is not a very effective way to tell the truth. A reasonable man, even several reasonable eyewitnesses and several accounts of such an event, would explain it more reasonably as a large scale deception or magicians trick.
Certainly an omniscience deity could trivially discover a better way.
The topic for debate is twofold, why would an omniscient God use such an ineffective method for communicating the truth, and why, would any reasonable person to believe this method?
Impracticality of resurrection
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- oldbadger
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Re: Impracticality of resurrection
Post #101Me? A cool Dude?We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:41 pm
Oldbadger, you are a cool dude
Actually, I am reminded of when those racists @$$#0\£$ bombed that church in Birmingham 1963, where four little black girls were killed.
See, when stuff like that happens, God is saddened, hurt.
But the sadness turns to anger, and when God is angry at you, I bet your own shadow will walk across the street from you.
Tell you what, Venom, don't worry about your God doing bad things to various folks, what you need to do absolutely is to start looking over your shoulder for Mother Nature, 'cos she rules here and as she gives joy so she brings tragedy. So it ain't your God doing any of it, it's our terrifying and wonderful guv'nor...Mother Nature.
And don't be so hard on them atheists, they're all right, even if they won't let Deists like me in to their club; and anyway, I don't care 'cos their beer is rubbish! Never met an atheist who knew anything about beer....that's why I feel so sad for them.
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Re: Impracticality of resurrection
Post #102Hello again....... Why do folks write oblique stuff and then blame the readers for not grasping their messages?
Because any narratives that reported a spick and span Jesus 2-3 days later weren't written by folks who were there..... they just made stuff up. But I think the author of G-Mark was (or had been) and he didn't mention any 2-3 days in his real deposition.It helps my proposal that, based on what Jesus went through, he could not have appeared as good as new to his audiences some 2-3 days later, you know, as the narratives said he did.
He didn't want to kill JesusPoint?
Indeed. In future, please could you correct all my typos for me? Thank you.Joseph*
Jesus didn't die.Point?
Yep. And I read 'em. And I sieved out a lot of waffle and binned it so as to find some truth there.Have you ever heard of this thing called "The Gospels"?
Did you read read them? If you did, would you agree with me that Jesus and his friends spent their time in the Temple on Palm Sunday looking about at everything, we would call it 'sightseeing' today.... well would you agree about that? It's that kind of mention that helps me massively during my studies.
Because they said that they did. Of course they did. He was alive.What would be the reason why thousands of people would believe that they saw something?
The author/s of G-John had a bundle of anecdotes, accounts and stories and Jesus. There were also stories passed down through about 70-80 years, the oral tradition about Jesus. But they didn't have a clue about how, when, where anything happened and so they scattered their info along an extended timeline because 11-12 months didn't seem impressive enough. And they got rid of the less impressive healings and demon castings in favour of imagined amazing back-to-life stuff. And they told a lot of fibs.You sound like these guys...
John 6:60, 66
Don't be like those guys.
Example:- Not having the first clue about what Jesus did during that last week before Passover they just waffled their way through it. But because we have read a genuine deposition this shows us how rarely people like Jesus actually attended the Temple, they were too busy scratching for a living up North....which is why when Jesus actually went in to Jerusalem on that last Sunday, he went sightseeing with his friends. I read the gospels, Venom.
For sure. I would like that.Lets talk more about it.
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Re: Impracticality of resurrection
Post #103Is that the same as the Book of Revelation that is found in the Bible?We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:07 am Have I read anything else besides the Book of Revelations?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: Impracticality of resurrection
Post #104That is like asking is Michael Jackson's song "Smooth Criminal" the same song found in a "Best Pop Songs of the 80's" album.
Like, yeah; I would think it is.
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Re: Impracticality of resurrection
Post #105I bet you wish you hadn't corrected my 'Josephus' now.We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:07 amThat is like asking is Michael Jackson's song "Smooth Criminal" the same song found in a "Best Pop Songs of the 80's" album.
Like, yeah; I would think it is.
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Re: Impracticality of resurrection
Post #106You're strengthening my suspicion that you've read almost nothing that's been written.We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:07 amHave I read anything else besides the Book of Revelations?Athetotheist wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:48 pmHave you ever read anything else?We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:50 pmI take it you've never read the latter part of the book of Revelations.Athetotheist wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:12 am I guess atheists can count themselves fortunate that God, in Her wisdom, doesn't indulge your vindictive fantasies.
Sure, I've also read Genesis-Jude.
Now that you've read the Jewish Bible and the Christian Bible, it's time to read up on why the latter doesn't follow from the former. Here are some experts on the Jewish Bible who can help you get started:
https://jewsforjudaism.org/
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Re: Impracticality of resurrection
Post #107Deists (irreligious theists) are welcome in the atheist club, as we don't mind about belief in some sorta god, only about the influence of organised religion.oldbadger wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:54 amMe? A cool Dude?We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:41 pm
Oldbadger, you are a cool dude
Actually, I am reminded of when those racists @$$#0\£$ bombed that church in Birmingham 1963, where four little black girls were killed.
See, when stuff like that happens, God is saddened, hurt.
But the sadness turns to anger, and when God is angry at you, I bet your own shadow will walk across the street from you.
Tell you what, Venom, don't worry about your God doing bad things to various folks, what you need to do absolutely is to start looking over your shoulder for Mother Nature, 'cos she rules here and as she gives joy so she brings tragedy. So it ain't your God doing any of it, it's our terrifying and wonderful guv'nor...Mother Nature.
And don't be so hard on them atheists, they're all right, even if they won't let Deists like me in to their club; and anyway, I don't care 'cos their beer is rubbish! Never met an atheist who knew anything about beer....that's why I feel so sad for them.
- We_Are_VENOM
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Re: Impracticality of resurrection
Post #108I take it back then.
God doesn't do bad things.Tell you what, Venom, don't worry about your God doing bad things to various folks
, what you need to do absolutely is to start looking over your shoulder for Mother Nature, 'cos she rules here and as she gives joy so she brings tragedy. So it ain't your God doing any of it, it's our terrifying and wonderful guv'nor...Mother Nature.
I dont drink of the devil's nectar.And don't be so hard on them atheists, they're all right, even if they won't let Deists like me in to their club; and anyway, I don't care 'cos their beer is rubbish! Never met an atheist who knew anything about beer....that's why I feel so sad for them.
Venni Vetti Vecci!!
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Re: Impracticality of resurrection
Post #109Ion even know, man.
Which is just fine, because Paul stated in 1 Corin 15:4 that Jesus was raised on the THIRD day...and 1 Corinthians predate Mark....so heyyyBecause any narratives that reported a spick and span Jesus 2-3 days later weren't written by folks who were there..... they just made stuff up. But I think the author of G-Mark was (or had been) and he didn't mention any 2-3 days in his real deposition.
Point?He didn't want to kill Jesus
Indeed. In future, please could you correct all my typos for me? Thank you.
Jesus didn't die.
Oh.
Oh.Yep. And I read 'em. And I sieved out a lot of waffle and binned it so as to find some truth there.
Did you read read them? If you did, would you agree with me that Jesus and his friends spent their time in the Temple on Palm Sunday looking about at everything, we would call it 'sightseeing' today.... well would you agree about that? It's that kind of mention that helps me massively during my studies.
Yeah, alive 3 days after they had been mourning his death.Because they said that they did. Of course they did. He was alive.
Ohhh, is that how it happened?The author/s of G-John had a bundle of anecdotes, accounts and stories and Jesus. There were also stories passed down through about 70-80 years, the oral tradition about Jesus. But they didn't have a clue about how, when, where anything happened and so they scattered their info along an extended timeline because 11-12 months didn't seem impressive enough. And they got rid of the less impressive healings and demon castings in favour of imagined amazing back-to-life stuff. And they told a lot of fibs.
Wow. I am baffled. Thanks for filling me in on how things went down.Example:- Not having the first clue about what Jesus did during that last week before Passover they just waffled their way through it. But because we have read a genuine deposition this shows us how rarely people like Jesus actually attended the Temple, they were too busy scratching for a living up North....which is why when Jesus actually went in to Jerusalem on that last Sunday, he went sightseeing with his friends. I read the gospels, Venom.
I could have swore things went differently...but after speaking to you, I just realized how wrong I was.
Appreciate'cha
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Re: Impracticality of resurrection
Post #110Have you taken a look at the link I posted? You might pick up some info there too.We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:10 pmIon even know, man.
Which is just fine, because Paul stated in 1 Corin 15:4 that Jesus was raised on the THIRD day...and 1 Corinthians predate Mark....so heyyyBecause any narratives that reported a spick and span Jesus 2-3 days later weren't written by folks who were there..... they just made stuff up. But I think the author of G-Mark was (or had been) and he didn't mention any 2-3 days in his real deposition.
Point?He didn't want to kill Jesus
Indeed. In future, please could you correct all my typos for me? Thank you.
Jesus didn't die.
Oh.
Oh.Yep. And I read 'em. And I sieved out a lot of waffle and binned it so as to find some truth there.
Did you read read them? If you did, would you agree with me that Jesus and his friends spent their time in the Temple on Palm Sunday looking about at everything, we would call it 'sightseeing' today.... well would you agree about that? It's that kind of mention that helps me massively during my studies.
Yeah, alive 3 days after they had been mourning his death.Because they said that they did. Of course they did. He was alive.
Ohhh, is that how it happened?The author/s of G-John had a bundle of anecdotes, accounts and stories and Jesus. There were also stories passed down through about 70-80 years, the oral tradition about Jesus. But they didn't have a clue about how, when, where anything happened and so they scattered their info along an extended timeline because 11-12 months didn't seem impressive enough. And they got rid of the less impressive healings and demon castings in favour of imagined amazing back-to-life stuff. And they told a lot of fibs.
Wow. I am baffled. Thanks for filling me in on how things went down.Example:- Not having the first clue about what Jesus did during that last week before Passover they just waffled their way through it. But because we have read a genuine deposition this shows us how rarely people like Jesus actually attended the Temple, they were too busy scratching for a living up North....which is why when Jesus actually went in to Jerusalem on that last Sunday, he went sightseeing with his friends. I read the gospels, Venom.
I could have swore things went differently...but after speaking to you, I just realized how wrong I was.
Appreciate'cha