near-death experiences - Are they evidence of an afterlife??

[amortalman]

Debate Question: Do you believe that near-death experiences are evidence of immaterial "souls" surviving death?

Near-death experiences came to the forefront with the publication of Life After Life: The Investigation of a Phenomenon by Dr. Raymond A. Moody Jr. in 1975. Since then, hundreds of books have been written on the subject, and thousands of testimonies have been researched and published. I was particularly impressed with the book Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife by Dr. Eben Alexander.

I would like to hear the views of Christians, atheists, and anyone who has read enough about NDEs (or has had one) to have an informed opinion. Thank you.

[TRANSPONDER]

Everything I've offered here is very provable. However, it is not my job to prove it to you or for you. It is up to you to do the field research.

What a cop out! Let's face it. If you could prove any of it, you would. You've offered nothing really, just rhetoric. Science may not have provided answers to all of our questions, but then mysticism has really answered none. Made up stuff doesn't count.

Indeed. Make a claim, get called on it and tell them to do the research themselves. A familiar cop -out. And yet It is not quite that with this Mystic stuff. Which depends on actually finding a way to get in contact with the Way, the Truth or the Enlightenment. And if everyone comes up with a different description of it, the parable of the Blind men and the elephant excuses that. I picked Buddhism to pursue the Mystic Experience though I eventually stopped practising because my knees weren't built for it. And i have come to see it more as a common human mental effect than contact with a greater reality.

[blackstart]

[Replying to blackstart in post #28]

With best and current science in hand, I disagree with you. 1. Asking computers ("huh?!! is that possible?") should reveal the true answer of afterlife. 2. We have devices nowadays that make souls visible to the human eye and it should be a simple thing to determine when a cat has died and see its soul separate from the dead body.
The 2 cases suggest you're not on the mark in this matter.

Sorry, blackstart. You seem biased instead of adhering to truth.

...
1. I've written about these devices that make spirits visible to the human eye as being like thermal imaging, making heat visible and infra-red, making it possible to see in the dark and low-light image intensifiers, making it possible to see in low-light conditions.
...

I assume you mean Kirlian photography, which has completely natural scientific explanations. Paranormal claims for the above have been rejected by the scientific community.

If you mean something other than this, please give details for me to check.

Also I await, with interest, your responses to the points I made in post 28.

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to blackstart in post #32]

Clarification: No, it's definitely not Kirlian photography. It's more like special goggles device that allows you to see more than the natural colors of the World, exploiting the Electromagnetic Spectrum to its utmost.
So souls can be found on special wavelengths, yet I don't know what these are now. Time will tell, probably not too far into the future.


Investigation of the entire Electromagnetic Spectrum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectroscopy.
Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_spectroscopy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photometry_(astronomy).

[amortalman]

[Replying to blackstart in post #28]

Thanks for your input and the references. I will definitely check them out.

[brunumb]

So souls can be found on special wavelengths, yet I don't know what these are now. Time will tell, probably not too far into the future.

There are no special wavelengths that we don't know about. There is the electromagnetic spectrum and we are aware of the wavelengths within it. Seeing souls with special glasses is pure nonsense.

[blackstart]

[Replying to blackstart in post #28]

Thanks for your input and the references. I will definitely check them out.

Cheers, amortalman. An enquiring mind is a productive mind, as I see it.

[blackstart]

[Replying to blackstart in post #32]

Clarification: No, it's definitely not Kirlian photography. It's more like special goggles device that allows you to see more than the natural colors of the World, exploiting the Electromagnetic Spectrum to its utmost.
So souls can be found on special wavelengths, yet I don't know what these are now. Time will tell, probably not too far into the future.


Investigation of the entire Electromagnetic Spectrum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectroscopy.
Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_spectroscopy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photometry_(astronomy).

Your linkages are associated with such devices as spectrometers and photometers which are widely used in science, and as such in no way do they back up your assertion that 'We have devices nowadays that make souls visible to the human eye'. So, I take it that this 'special goggles' device(which makes spirits and souls visible) hasn't been invented yet. When it is, let me know.

Hence I'll stick with my original premise that there is a lack of any significant evidence for the afterlife interpretation for NDEs, including any evidence for souls or spirits at all.

[William]

Debate Question: Do you believe that near-death experiences are evidence of immaterial "souls" surviving death?

No.

[amortalman]

[Replying to Swami in post #26]

Just a reminder of Rule #5

5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence. Opinions require no support, but they should not be considered as valid to any argument, nor will they be considered as legitimate support for any claim.

[William]

Debate Question: Do you believe that near-death experiences are evidence of immaterial "souls" surviving death?

I think the use of the word 'soul' reduces the answers to that of a religious nature, which often just muddies the waters.

Near-death experiences - et al - are possibly evidence of alternate experiential realities which may be examples of what can be expected if immaterial individual consciousnesses and accompanying developed personalities survive death of the body-container/avatar.