near-death experiences - Are they evidence of an afterlife??

[amortalman]

Debate Question: Do you believe that near-death experiences are evidence of immaterial "souls" surviving death?

Near-death experiences came to the forefront with the publication of Life After Life: The Investigation of a Phenomenon by Dr. Raymond A. Moody Jr. in 1975. Since then, hundreds of books have been written on the subject, and thousands of testimonies have been researched and published. I was particularly impressed with the book Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife by Dr. Eben Alexander.

I would like to hear the views of Christians, atheists, and anyone who has read enough about NDEs (or has had one) to have an informed opinion. Thank you.

[TRANSPONDER]

I think you are supposing that anecdotal data is itself objective.

I've consistently made the case that anecdotal data is not objective. The very last line in my last post reflects that:
"If Dr. Parnia relied on the patient's account alone, then that would be anecdotal. But once he brings in objective data, then it goes beyond anecdotes."

NDE experiences are by their nature anecdotal. The fact that people have them is objective but that is not evidence that the experiences described are real.

Agreed! You bring up an important distinction. NDEs are subjective in the sense that it's an experience that only the subject has. But it can be shown to be real if there's evidence to corroborate or verify the experience. For instance, the OBE is a personal experience. If the patient is able to see the images on the shelves while out-of-body and report it accurately, then that would be evidence to verify that the OBE was real.

I agree. If. So far all I have seen is (as I said) suggestions that it would be a good test and some claim that it WAS tested and some hidden things were seen. I have also seen that some incidental 'tests' (not planned) turned out to Not see some hidden objects. So we still seem to be in the area of anecdote, not data.

[AgnosticBoy]

I agree. If. So far all I have seen is (as I said) suggestions that it would be a good test and some claim that it WAS tested and some hidden things were seen. I have also seen that some incidental 'tests' (not planned) turned out to Not see some hidden objects. So we still seem to be in the area of anecdote, not data.

Well, veridical OBEs are one thing we've talked about here but just having consciousness persisting during cardiac arrest is another. The latter does not have to involve an OBE and there is at least one verified case that includes objective data. At this point it's no longer anecdotal because it does not rely only on the patient's experience. There is corroborating evidence.

[TRANSPONDER]

Well, it is anecdotal in respect of how long the experience lasts. and how much is perception and how much imagination. I know dreams of mine can include a noise like someone knocking or a car backfiring in the context of a dream and it's still going on when i wake up, sweating. But I'm not going to make any claims for this other than an explanation is awaited rather than 'I have the gift of prophecy'.

in other words concsiousness/perception while Out is still anecdotal information rather than validated Data in any explanatory context, or conclusions. We are not there, yet, for all that some (for whatever reason) would love to rush us to a conclusion.

One day....I'll go along with it just to see whether I get rushed along a prepared garden path to a disembodied consciousness...soul...God, heaven and Jesus. Remind me next time.