"....and all the world wondered after the beast." (Rev. 13:3)
The antichrist is supposed to fool everyone----except true Christians----into worshipping him.
How well would that work out? Would he be able to fool.....
Jews? Judaism holds that only God is to be worshipped and that God does not take any physical form. Worship of any human being is considered blasphemous idolatry, and any wonders the antichrist performed would be interpreted as the workings of a false teacher sent by God to test the Jewish people.
Muslims? Islam also teaches that God takes no physical form, so they too would instantly peg the antichrist as a phony.
Feminist Pagans would reject any god-claim which didn't acknowledge the Goddess.
Atheists would suspect any miracle of being either a trick or a coincidence. An "image of the beast" brought to life could be taken for an artificial intelligence project.
The god-claim of the antichrist being fundamentally incompatible with so many beliefs, who would be left for the antichrist to fool?
Who would the antichrist fool?
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2695
- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:24 pm
- Has thanked: 14 times
- Been thanked: 484 times
-
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2695
- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:24 pm
- Has thanked: 14 times
- Been thanked: 484 times
Re: Who would the antichrist fool?
Post #21[Replying to 6JehovahsWitness in post #17
Beast, antichrist, man of perdition, whoever......is presumed to be controlled by Satan (I presume you're not contesting that), which leaves the initial question hanging: how would any of them fool anyone whose own beliefs preclude the acceptance of such a figure?
Beast, antichrist, man of perdition, whoever......is presumed to be controlled by Satan (I presume you're not contesting that), which leaves the initial question hanging: how would any of them fool anyone whose own beliefs preclude the acceptance of such a figure?
-
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2695
- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:24 pm
- Has thanked: 14 times
- Been thanked: 484 times
Re: Who would the antichrist fool?
Post #22"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:31 amExcuse me, but do and didnt they this all the time, even if they will try semantically deny it if asked?Athetotheist wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:49 pmIn this case the worship is supposed to be in the form of bowing down to an image, a big no-no in the Abrahamic religions. Though an antichrist could sure mess things up by appearing as an entertainer rather than as a deity (see my thread, "if you were Satan").The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:12 pm "Worship" can be understood in a broad way!
I think that all denominations you brought up are free to "worship", for example, Johnny Depp as a great Pirate-Actor or Walt Disney as a great Businessman who brought Happiness to so many kids.
Also different groups could worship the Antichrist for different reasons.
For example; If the Antichrist were to perform Miracles, Atheists would presumably be interested in how he does that.
So they could end up "worshipping" him out of Fun or as a great and talented Illusionist.
In a church Hierarchy, doesnt one always bow Down before ones Spiritualität leader?
Even muhammeddans who dissallow pictures use and used to bow down before spiritual a n d before worldly leaders: Caliph, Ayatollah (spiritual and wordly), Sultan (only worldly) et cetera.
Catholics bow Down before Clergy and kiss the Popes Ring.
LDS bow Down before their current Holy Prophet and his current 12 apostles.
Jehovahs Witnesses are not allowed to think or speak out of the line their council of 9 white and 1 black man commands. They go with it.
If that is not bowing down, what is?
Evangelicals bow down before their Pastor.
The bowing down is not always meant literally of course.
And the majority of all this denominations (save LDS, who despise coffein) bow down before Coca-Cola. The distributors Made Coca-Cola great by explcitly stating to their Propaganda people (Coca-Cola men) that their product must be introduced to the masses like a religion. "The Coca-Cola Evangelium" was the Word they extra created.
Interesting too is the fact that Asa Chandler the businessman who first Made Coca-Cola great was in his second job a fanatical methodist preacher.
In that context, would an Antichrist be that unable to get Abrahamitic sects to do what they do best already, and make them bowing Down before hin?
Plus he could theoretically be already among us, alive and kicking, as Benny Hinn, as a mormon apostle, as a Coca-Cola man . . .
That ain't your average Coca-Cola man.....
-
OnlineThe Nice Centurion
- Sage
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:47 pm
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 93 times
Re: Who would the antichrist fool?
Post #23quote=Athetotheist post_id=1083010 time=1656259521 user_id=14379]
Guy was a real Coca-Cola Dictator.
For Example: When it came to his mind to fire one of his Directors, he just closed shut his working room and sent him his personal belongings.
That said, it is an important question; Does one want to take bible Verses describing the Antichrist and the Endtimes all literally or not.
If yes; What and where, for example, is "Gods Temple" today" ?
LDS would presumably Name the big praying room (which they call Temple already) at their central headquarters, while Catholics would Name St. Peter in room and Benny Hinn would probably Name one of his most comfortable Luxus Apartements. And so on.
Another Example: The four Apocalyptic Horsemen seem Hopelessly outclassed when considering modern weapons. Yes, in biblical times, I am pretty sure, even a human heavy armored warrior with an armored fighting horse could terrorize a town of peasants. But whoever wrote this couldnt foresee modern times.
No, but I cant help feeling remembered of Robert Woodruff, the Big Boss of Coca-Cola 1923-1954..The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:31 amHe will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."Athetotheist wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:49 pmIn this case the worship is supposed to be in the form of bowing down to an image, a big no-no in the Abrahamic religions. Though an antichrist could sure mess things up by appearing as an entertainer rather than as a deity (see my thread, "if you were Satan").The Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:12 pm "Worship" can be understood in a broad way!
I think that all denominations you brought up are free to "worship", for example, Johnny Depp as a great Pirate-Actor or Walt Disney as a great Businessman who brought Happiness to so many kids.
Also different groups could worship the Antichrist for different reasons.
For example; If the Antichrist were to perform Miracles, Atheists would presumably be interested in how he does that.
So they could end up "worshipping" him out of Fun or as a great and talented Illusionist.
That ain't your average Coca-Cola man.....
Guy was a real Coca-Cola Dictator.
For Example: When it came to his mind to fire one of his Directors, he just closed shut his working room and sent him his personal belongings.
That said, it is an important question; Does one want to take bible Verses describing the Antichrist and the Endtimes all literally or not.
If yes; What and where, for example, is "Gods Temple" today" ?
LDS would presumably Name the big praying room (which they call Temple already) at their central headquarters, while Catholics would Name St. Peter in room and Benny Hinn would probably Name one of his most comfortable Luxus Apartements. And so on.
Another Example: The four Apocalyptic Horsemen seem Hopelessly outclassed when considering modern weapons. Yes, in biblical times, I am pretty sure, even a human heavy armored warrior with an armored fighting horse could terrorize a town of peasants. But whoever wrote this couldnt foresee modern times.
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again
”
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon
"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates
"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates
-
OnlineThe Nice Centurion
- Sage
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:47 pm
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 93 times
Re: Who would the antichrist fool?
Post #24Yeah, good Question. According the difference one is tempted to say the difference is fluent, but I would rather say that the difference is subjektive.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:13 amThe Nice Centurion wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:31 am
The bowing down is not always meant literally of course.
- So "bowing down" might depending on context be a metaphor; a metaphor for what?
- What (if anythjng) is the difference between worship, bowling down and submission ?
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
In case of a Person literally bowing down of course there can hardly be subjectivity. One did bow Down or one didnt.
Revelation says all people will bow Down before the AC
But ... a literally bowing down of all people alive today one by one before the person of the Antichrist would be taking forever and is logistically impossible.
(Richard Carrier describes in an article on his Website also the logstic impossibility of the ressurected Jesus showing himself before St.Pauls 500 witnesses.)
Poor Antichrist would out of boredom quit his mischief if all people in the world would try to stand in line to bow down before him person to person.
And what about Infants who dont understand anything and people that are too sick to move et cetera - How would they bow down, though they surely do belong to all people.
So it seems, one can safely assume that the ancients already knew how to, and did use "bowing down" as a Metapher.
I am pretty sure that if one of the 7 Nice Centurions in the NT told a mass of peasants: "You must all bow down before the Caesar August!" than he ditdnt mean to charter this people a ship so they could go to holidays in rome and met the Imperator personally to bow Down before bis person. Also if he did, ans assassin would see his chance coming.
Reminds me of Chinas First Emperor who despised meeting his people and allowed no weapons at all in his palace, out of fear from assassins.
Then he deigned to meet some war hero (as is told also in the Movie "Hero") before his throne and this man happened to be an armed assassin.
“If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. But if you drown a man in a fish pond, he will never have to go hungry again
”
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon
"
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates
"
"Only Experts in Reformed Egyptian should be allowed to critique the Book of Mormon
"Joseph Smith can't possibly have been a deceiver.
For if he had been, the Angel Moroni never would have taken the risk of enthrusting him with the Golden Plates
-
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2695
- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:24 pm
- Has thanked: 14 times
- Been thanked: 484 times
Re: Who would the antichrist fool?
Post #25If no one has an answer to my question, I wish everyone would just say so.
- Diogenes
- Guru
- Posts: 1308
- Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 12:53 pm
- Location: Washington
- Has thanked: 864 times
- Been thanked: 1266 times
Re: Who would the antichrist fool?
Post #26Who would the antichrist fool?
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
That's an easy one: Whomever thinks Donald Trump is a Christian.
___________________________________
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
“Before You Embark On A Journey Of Revenge, Dig Two Graves”
— Confucius
- William
- Savant
- Posts: 14142
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Te Waipounamu
- Has thanked: 911 times
- Been thanked: 1642 times
- Contact:
Re: Who would the antichrist fool?
Post #27[Replying to Athetotheist in post #1]
Since it did not [in any obvious way] eventuate, it is highly unlikely to do so because such an event would now be understood - not only in relation to the Industrial epoch, but even more so, in relation to the Technological epoch.
Since the rapid human advancement in knowledge of our universe, such an event cannot be seen as some type of finishing stages of warfare between mythological theist-based characters superimposing themselves into human affairs [mostly via fiction] since so much is known about related subjects such as the possibility of Extraterrestrials and the advancement of understanding the idea of Simulated Reality Experiences through human technology...those two alone cancel out any possible biblical incarnation of The Second Coming from actually happening, as woke folk add it up and declare the event as most likely a mix of both extraterrestrial intervention and holograms.
Any declaration made by the beings about their "GOD" - status, would therefore be quite intelligently questionable.
This is not to say that such a thing couldn't still be done. But why would it be done? To sort out the woke folk from the gullible lead?
Why not simply stay in the background and watch how humanity handles itself?
"For the sake of the elect of GOD?"
Why would the EoG care for their own safety that they would pray "Enough! Sweet Jesus return!"?
And since when have the innocents being spared the pain and horror wrought on them by the way those who have the power to do so, have done so - with not one GOD-being intervening already to cease those atrocities?
Perhaps the atheist might declare "See! GOD is Dead!", based upon such evidence. Perhaps they do so because the alternative [Extraterrestrials mostly letting things unfold as they are without obvious interference] is too much to bear?
Morality based ideals are the stuff of quagmires...as PK has oft enough pointed out...
We no longer know what the future might bring, even using science based guesses. What we are waking up to, is that we also know that guessing using religious mythology is not science.
Truth is, we never did know what the future might bring, which is why so many of those guesses were fundamentally incorrect.
We best accept that we will either work it all out for ourselves, or we will die [as a species] not trying...
This is known and accepted by those who are using their lives in order to at least try and preserve the human specie, that it may one day fly more willfully among the stars.
Biologic answers are on the way out, while machine answers come marching in...
I think the story itself is fundamentally flawed and in order for it to have been made real, the incidences re prophecy should have all occurred before the advent of the Industrial epoch.The god-claim of the antichrist being fundamentally incompatible with so many beliefs, who would be left for the antichrist to fool?
Since it did not [in any obvious way] eventuate, it is highly unlikely to do so because such an event would now be understood - not only in relation to the Industrial epoch, but even more so, in relation to the Technological epoch.
Since the rapid human advancement in knowledge of our universe, such an event cannot be seen as some type of finishing stages of warfare between mythological theist-based characters superimposing themselves into human affairs [mostly via fiction] since so much is known about related subjects such as the possibility of Extraterrestrials and the advancement of understanding the idea of Simulated Reality Experiences through human technology...those two alone cancel out any possible biblical incarnation of The Second Coming from actually happening, as woke folk add it up and declare the event as most likely a mix of both extraterrestrial intervention and holograms.
Any declaration made by the beings about their "GOD" - status, would therefore be quite intelligently questionable.
This is not to say that such a thing couldn't still be done. But why would it be done? To sort out the woke folk from the gullible lead?
Why not simply stay in the background and watch how humanity handles itself?
"For the sake of the elect of GOD?"
Why would the EoG care for their own safety that they would pray "Enough! Sweet Jesus return!"?
And since when have the innocents being spared the pain and horror wrought on them by the way those who have the power to do so, have done so - with not one GOD-being intervening already to cease those atrocities?
Perhaps the atheist might declare "See! GOD is Dead!", based upon such evidence. Perhaps they do so because the alternative [Extraterrestrials mostly letting things unfold as they are without obvious interference] is too much to bear?
Morality based ideals are the stuff of quagmires...as PK has oft enough pointed out...
We no longer know what the future might bring, even using science based guesses. What we are waking up to, is that we also know that guessing using religious mythology is not science.
Truth is, we never did know what the future might bring, which is why so many of those guesses were fundamentally incorrect.
We best accept that we will either work it all out for ourselves, or we will die [as a species] not trying...
This is known and accepted by those who are using their lives in order to at least try and preserve the human specie, that it may one day fly more willfully among the stars.
Biologic answers are on the way out, while machine answers come marching in...
-
- Sage
- Posts: 898
- Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:18 pm
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 225 times
Re: Who would the antichrist fool?
Post #28[Replying to Athetotheist in post #1]
I agree that you are mixing some metaphors here – the Beast of Revelation, the antichrists of John’s epistles and the man of sin (literally “man of lawlessness”) in 2 Thessalonians.
However, I don’t want to get bogged down with that. Instead, let me try to answer the question, “Who will be fooled?”
The answer is: Those who want to be fooled.
This deceiver is not using trickery. There is no mystery to figure out. Anyone who listens to what this person says will know that he does not come from God. However, he will come telling people what they want to hear. He will offer ease of life and enjoyment and encourage people to indulge their selfish and self-centered instincts. There is a part of all of us that wants to believe this. People will have the choice to believe the immoral things they want to believe, or to take the harder road of conforming our lives to Christ.
Many people will be deceived in that they will believe what this deceiver says because they want to believe it.
I agree that you are mixing some metaphors here – the Beast of Revelation, the antichrists of John’s epistles and the man of sin (literally “man of lawlessness”) in 2 Thessalonians.
However, I don’t want to get bogged down with that. Instead, let me try to answer the question, “Who will be fooled?”
The answer is: Those who want to be fooled.
This deceiver is not using trickery. There is no mystery to figure out. Anyone who listens to what this person says will know that he does not come from God. However, he will come telling people what they want to hear. He will offer ease of life and enjoyment and encourage people to indulge their selfish and self-centered instincts. There is a part of all of us that wants to believe this. People will have the choice to believe the immoral things they want to believe, or to take the harder road of conforming our lives to Christ.
Many people will be deceived in that they will believe what this deceiver says because they want to believe it.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin
-Charles Darwin
- Wootah
- Savant
- Posts: 9190
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
- Has thanked: 188 times
- Been thanked: 108 times
Re: Who would the antichrist fool?
Post #29[Replying to Athetotheist in post #1]
We have a large % of the population angry they can't murder babies. Anti-christ is doing fine.
We have a large % of the population angry they can't murder babies. Anti-christ is doing fine.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image
."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
- brunumb
- Savant
- Posts: 6002
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 6627 times
- Been thanked: 3222 times
Re: Who would the antichrist fool?
Post #30Lies and misrepresentations like "We have a large % of the population angry they can't murder babies" is the sort of thing the antichrist will surely foster to gain a following.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.