Who would the antichrist fool?

[Athetotheist]

"....and all the world wondered after the beast." (Rev. 13:3)

The antichrist is supposed to fool everyone----except true Christians----into worshipping him.

How well would that work out? Would he be able to fool.....

Jews? Judaism holds that only God is to be worshipped and that God does not take any physical form. Worship of any human being is considered blasphemous idolatry, and any wonders the antichrist performed would be interpreted as the workings of a false teacher sent by God to test the Jewish people.

Muslims? Islam also teaches that God takes no physical form, so they too would instantly peg the antichrist as a phony.

Feminist Pagans would reject any god-claim which didn't acknowledge the Goddess.

Atheists would suspect any miracle of being either a trick or a coincidence. An "image of the beast" brought to life could be taken for an artificial intelligence project.

The god-claim of the antichrist being fundamentally incompatible with so many beliefs, who would be left for the antichrist to fool?

[JehovahsWitness]

Is there a reason you don't believe that anyone like this appears in Revelation, or that it's a pretty good description of an antichrist?

I did not say nobody "... like this appears in Revelation" but the scriptures are quite clear about the man of lawlessness and what does (and yes it is a mistake to believe we are talking about a single individual or even a single organisation). The wild beast of Revelation may indeed include elements that pertain to this biblical entity but it itself does not represent the man of lawlessness /the antichrist.


FURTHER READING : Who Is the Antichrist?
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines ... ntichrist/

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS* and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION

* The Antichrist

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #11

I did not say nobody "... like this appears in Revelation" but the scriptures are quite clear about the man of lawlessness and what does (and yes it is a mistake to believe we are talking about a single individual or even a single organisation). The wild beast of Revelation may indeed include elements that pertain to this biblical entity but it itself does not represent the man of lawlessness /the antichrist.

This is awfully vague. If this isn't a single individual, how does he sit in the temple?

The Bible refers to numerous "messiahs" ("annointed ones"). Does that mean there isn't one "Messiah"?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #11

I did not say nobody "... like this appears in Revelation" but the scriptures are quite clear about the man of lawlessness and what does (and yes it is a mistake to believe we are talking about a single individual or even a single organisation). The wild beast of Revelation may indeed include elements that pertain to this biblical entity but it itself does not represent the man of lawlessness /the antichrist.

This is awfully vague. If this isn't a single individual, how does he sit in the temple?

Are you a bible literalist? As one of Jehovahs Witnesses I do not take everything in the bible to be literal. Thesselonians is speaking metaphorically.

The Bible refers to numerous "messiahs" ("annointed ones"). Does that mean there isn't one "Messiah"?

Correct. One has to read the context to know which Messiah is being referred to and when. One must read the bible intellgently, ask sensible questions and apply critical thinking skills to come to a reasoned and balanced understanding of scripture.

It's not as simple as saying "Well there's the word man and theres the word man.... so they must be the same "man"

That's just infantile.

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #4

You refer to REVELATION 13:3 which does not speak about the antichrist but rather wild beast which represents the governments of the world.

"Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man".....(Rev. 13:18)

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #13

Thesselonians is speaking metaphorically.

For speaking metaphorically, it goes into some pretty specific detail.

One must read the bible intellgently, ask sensible questions and apply critical thinking skills to come to a reasoned and balanced understanding of scripture.

Must one conveniently re-interpret the Bible whenever something it says is inconvenient?

It's not as simple as saying "Well there's the word man and theres the word man.... so they must be the same "man"

Right. It's saying, "Here's that man of perdition sitting in the temple and calling himself God, and here's the number of the beast in Revelation being the number of a man.....since they're so similar, they're pretty likely supposed to be the same man."

There is also numerological evidence suggesting that they were thought to be the same man. In some biblical numerology, six symbolizes Man and three symbolizes perfection or completion. Therefore, 666 would be the number of a man claiming to be perfect (God).
https://www.christianity.com/wiki/chris ... ology.html


I'd say such thinking is fairly critical.

[brunumb]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #4

You refer to REVELATION 13:3 which does not speak about the antichrist but rather wild beast which represents the governments of the world.

"Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man".....(Rev. 13:18)

So if the word "man" is found anywhere else in scripture it must be the antichrist? Is that the full extent of your reasoning ?

HUH? You must be joking (I have to confess to bursting out laughing at that response). The expression surely refers to "a man" as distinct from an animal, or a group of men, or a government, or whatever else you may want to throw into the mix. It simply means that it will be a man.

[The Nice Centurion]

"Worship" can be understood in a broad way!

I think that all denominations you brought up are free to "worship", for example, Johnny Depp as a great Pirate-Actor or Walt Disney as a great Businessman who brought Happiness to so many kids.

Also different groups could worship the Antichrist for different reasons.
For example; If the Antichrist were to perform Miracles, Atheists would presumably be interested in how he does that.
So they could end up "worshipping" him out of Fun or as a great and talented Illusionist.

In this case the worship is supposed to be in the form of bowing down to an image, a big no-no in the Abrahamic religions. Though an antichrist could sure mess things up by appearing as an entertainer rather than as a deity (see my thread, "if you were Satan").

Excuse me, but do and didnt they this all the time, even if they will try semantically deny it if asked?

In a church Hierarchy, doesnt one always bow Down before ones Spiritualität leader?

Even muhammeddans who dissallow pictures use and used to bow down before spiritual a n d before worldly leaders: Caliph, Ayatollah (spiritual and wordly), Sultan (only worldly) et cetera.

Catholics bow Down before Clergy and kiss the Popes Ring.

LDS bow Down before their current Holy Prophet and his current 12 apostles.

Jehovahs Witnesses are not allowed to think or speak out of the line their council of 9 white and 1 black man commands. They go with it.
If that is not bowing down, what is?

Evangelicals bow down before their Pastor.

The bowing down is not always meant literally of course.

And the majority of all this denominations (save LDS, who despise coffein) bow down before Coca-Cola. The distributors Made Coca-Cola great by explcitly stating to their Propaganda people (Coca-Cola men) that their product must be introduced to the masses like a religion. "The Coca-Cola Evangelium" was the Word they extra created.
Interesting too is the fact that Asa Chandler the businessman who first Made Coca-Cola great was in his second job a fanatical methodist preacher.

In that context, would an Antichrist be that unable to get Abrahamitic sects to do what they do best already, and make them bowing Down before hin?

Plus he could theoretically be already among us, alive and kicking, as Benny Hinn, as a mormon apostle, as a Coca-Cola man . . .

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #13

Thesselonians is speaking metaphorically.

For speaking metaphorically, it goes into some pretty specific detail.

Yes, most of those details are metaphoric. So ?


Thank you for your additional comments the were much more coherent. However you have as yet not defined your terms (a basic in analysis)

• Who or What is "the man of lawlessness" that Paul speaks about and what is the scriptural basis for your identification?

... and without being circular

• Who or What is "the ses beast" of Revelation and what is the scriptural basis for your identification?

Then you will be in a position to establish if your theorized parallel is scripturally sound.

[JehovahsWitness]

The bowing down is not always meant literally of course.

• So "bowing down" might depending on context be a metaphor; a metaphor for what?

• What (if anythjng) is the difference between worship, bowling down and submission ?

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[1213]

...who would be left for the antichrist to fool?

Everyone who doesn't know Jesus can be fooled to think someone else is Jesus.

[Athetotheist]

...who would be left for the antichrist to fool?

Everyone who doesn't know Jesus can be fooled to think someone else is Jesus.

But this is about how an antichrist could fool anyone whose religion tells them that God doesn't do what that antichrist does.