Is Trinity Doctrine Scriptural?

hiramabbi2 · Post by **hiramabbi2** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:43 pm

I don't believe trinity doctrine is supported by the Scripture!

I believe it is one of the so many products of Satan's Masterful Deception -inculcated in the minds of Christians since time immemorial - to take away the glory of of our Lord YHWH, the Son of the Invisible God Father.

Who do you consider as the Almigthy God Father? Why?

Who do you consider as the Son? Why?

BRIEFLY, please provide Scriptural support why you believe in trinity doctrine for our open discussion.

(Omega) · Post by **(Omega)** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:05 pm

Dilettante wrote:May I say that the doctrine of the Trinity is incomprehensible? After all, if the Catholic church itself admits it, why not call attention to it?
Omega wrote:
If you still have a hard time understanding the Triune nature of God than I will give you an example:

We know that the Plum consists of the seed, its flesh and the skin and these comprise one avocado correct? Without the seed there would be neither the skin nor the flesh and we realize that they are of one essence .
However, the seed can become a plant without the flesh or the skin, so your analogy is weak.

You just made my point, the spirit quickeneth, the flesh profits for nothing. You fail to natural man the spiritual intent of the ananlogy. God Bless!

Dilettante · Post by **Dilettante** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:08 pm

Well, because 1+1+1=3. Always.
Except in this case we are told that 1+1+1=1.
That's puzzling enough for me.
I'm not a mathematician, but I think only 1x1x1=1.

Also because we are told that three persons are one. But those three persons are necessarily limited by each other.

Can you explain it please?

(Omega) · Post by **(Omega)** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:12 pm

1+1+1=1?

Mans understanding reasons that 1+1+1=3
Perhaps God understands that although there are three "Ones" nevertheless, there are three 1's however each number is one, making them all 1
Is not each number the number 1?
Understand my friend?

Dilettante · Post by **Dilettante** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 7:42 am

If I have three apples, each apple is still 1 apple. So what?

I don't understand your math...Sorry, but you've lost me.

Or...
You mean God's math is not our math?

God's language not our language?

God's logic not our logic?

That means no communication with or knowledge of God is possible for us puny humans, just as I suspected all along.

I guess three more reasons to be agnostic!

(Omega) · Post by **(Omega)** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:18 am

You trying to reason with God is the very reason why you cannot understand. Its not a matter of simple math my friend, the Scriptures clearly teach of triune God manifested as three eternal persons.

John 17:11 - And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Do you believe what the scriptures state or do you try and reason with it using your human logic?
I have already pointed to at least one or more sciptures that prove the distinction of the Son from the Father. And I can bring about a whole list, the question is whether you are willing to accept Scriptural Truth when it is presented to you???

1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

God Bless!

Dilettante · Post by **Dilettante** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:18 pm

Quote:
1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

In other words, there is nothing to understand. It's just a matter of blindly accepting as true something we can't understand, in the hope that we will understand it in the afterlife, right? Or perhaps you are telling me, like Tertullian, that we should believe it, not despite its being absurd but because it is absurd...

In any case, if I have to disconnect my brain when it comes to religious issues, how am I to discern what to believe from what not to believe? If I have to accept something because I am told is a revealed truth, should I then accept all supposedly revealed texts (the Koran, the Book of Mormon, the Urantia Book, etc)?

Religion, without reason, becomes fanaticism.

(Omega) · Post by **(Omega)** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:10 pm

Since nobody bothered trying to refute what the Scriptures plainly teach, would you like to be my guest?

(Omega) wrote:Modalism is a very deceiving false doctrine that teaches that there is no Triune God but that God had revealed Himself in different modes, it is also known as modalistic monarchianism and on of the first main proponents of modalism was Noetus of Smyrna and in addition two noted leaders of the movement which includes Praxeas and Sabellius a Libyan priest. Because of Sabellius, modalism is also called Sabellianism. Sabellius was justly condemned as a heretic circa a.d. 220) by the Roman bishop, Callistus, and by bishop Dionysius. Modalist or oneness adherents vehemently proclaim that the trinitarian doctrine is nowhere to be found within the Bible and that it is either demonic in origin, pagan or associates with the mark of the beast. Just as Jesus was accused of being on the side of Satan, so is those who Truly know the voice of Truth and know God personally. Each member of the Triune God clearly display their own personal will and intellect signifying that they are distinct persons. How can there be three and yet remain one God? Nothing comes before the Son, nothing comes before the Father and nothing comes before the Holy Spirit, thus making them all Eternal without beginning. God precedes us but nothing precedes any of the persons of the Godhead. If the Father existed before the Son then the Son could not be called God, but the Son had always existed and neither member preceded each other, therefore making them ONE GOD in Unity!

I quoted those "PARTICULAR" Verses for the very reason that PROVES without doubt, pay attention to these verses::

Whom did the Son share His love and Glory with BEFORE the foundation of the world?

John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me(with)thine (own self) with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17:24 - Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for (thou lovedst me) before the foundation of the world.

And if you want to link the Father to the Divine Spirit and the Son to the Human Spirit then your still trapped, why?

John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me{human spirit}(with)thine (own self){Divine Spirit} with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17:24 - Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for (thou{Divine Spirit} lovedst me{Human Spirit}) before the foundation of the world.

Does this make sense to you my friend, does Jesus have a split personality? Common sense, God is not the author of Confusion but have spoken plainly in Scriptures so that A CHILD may understand.

God Bless!

What is Truth? The Bible is the Final Authority, and to deny its truth is to deny God Himself!

God Bless!

Lotan · Post by **Lotan** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:19 pm

(Omega) wrote:What is Truth? The Bible is the Final Authority, and to deny its truth is to deny God Himself!

That's nice. Although I don't give a fig about either side of the trinity debate, I wonder if you would like to comment on the Johannine Comma? God sure took his (their?) sweet old time inserting that bit of scripture into the "Final Authority". BTW what's up with the Capitalization thing? Is it supposed to make your Assertions seem More Impressive?

Lotan · Post by **Lotan** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:30 pm

(Omega) wrote: What is Truth? The Bible is the Final Authority, and to deny its truth is to deny God Himself!

Although I don't give a fig about either side of the trinity debate, I wonder if you would like to comment on the Johannine Comma? God sure took his (their?) sweet old time inserting that bit of scripture into the "Final Authority".
BTW what's up with the Capitalization thing? Is it supposed to make your Assertions seem More Impressive?
One last thing, no hard feelings but, please don't refer to me as 'friend'. I find it disingenuous and condescending.

Dilettante · Post by **Dilettante** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:55 am

I think we are arguing at cross-purposes here. I never disputed the the scriptures talk about a Triune God. My point was that such a concept is incomprehensible.
Perhaps I should have started a different thread.