What proof would be sufficient - 2

[potwalloper.]

Q: What would you, the believer in God, consider sufficient and definitive proof that God does not exist? What proof would be required to “make you into an atheist”?

We have had the debate as to what proof would be sufficient to make a non-believer believe in God.

I am intrigued to know what proof would be sufficient to make you, a believer in God, stop believing in his existence? No after life; no soul; no heaven; no God; no divine purpose; no supernatural; the bible just a work of fiction.

Nothing. Zero. Zilch.

I am seriously interested in this - my guess is that the answer is that nothing could stop you from believing in God...but an answer like that will add nothing to the debate.

[Piper Plexed]

Q: What would you, the believer in God, consider sufficient and definitive proof that God does not exist? What proof would be required to “make you into an atheist”?

Proof for me might be an explanation of the how we exist, going back to the beginning, matter, energy, the origin, the full story. From that I might find the why we exist.

[potwalloper.]

Responses to this thread appear to few and far between when compared to the original thread.

Can I conclude from this that whilst non-believers can consider what would prove to them that God exists Christians cannot envisage of any evidence that could make them become atheists?

[Nyril]

Proof for me might be an explanation of the how we exist, going back to the beginning, matter, energy, the origin, the full story. From that I might find the why we exist.

Why do we need this? Honestly? What is the matter with physics simply throwing up their hands and saying, "Give us a break, we've only been working on it for 100 years"?

From another route, why does our lack of knowledge in the area give credit to the idea of a god? Doesn't it give equal amounts of merit to the idea that Allah did everything? Doesn't it give equal amounts of merit to the idea that the Invisible Pink Unicorn did it?

[Piper Plexed]

Proof for me might be an explanation of the how we exist, going back to the beginning, matter, energy, the origin, the full story. From that I might find the why we exist.

Why do we need this? Honestly? What is the matter with physics simply throwing up their hands and saying, "Give us a break, we've only been working on it for 100 years"?

I guess if someone is comfortable with half the story, they will accept science as it stands today. For me when I consider life on this planet one theme repeats constantly, there is a clear cut beginning to life, be it parental coupling, seeding etc. explained quite nicely by science. I don't think it is absurd to believe that there is a beginning to the planet as well as the life that inhabits and propagates on the planet. Mans attempt to understand and manipulate his environment only started 100 years ago? I think this began with 2 sticks producing fire in a cave.

From another route, why does our lack of knowledge in the area give credit to the idea of a god? Doesn't it give equal amounts of merit to the idea that Allah did everything? Doesn't it give equal amounts of merit to the idea that the Invisible Pink Unicorn did it?

Yes it does give equal credit to the many names of God. For me God is not a name, more of a concept.

edited to add..
Or to revise the above quote...
From another route, why does our lack of knowledge in the area give credit to the idea that there isn't a god? Why does ((poof)) we exist make more sense in light of the fact from ((poof)) onward we are able to track lineage.

[DTho]

Responses to this thread appear to few and far between when compared to the original thread.

Can I conclude from this that whilst non-believers can consider what would prove to them that God exists Christians cannot envisage of any evidence that could make them become atheists?

Hmmmm . . . That’s a toughie. Fine question to be sure, but hard to say the least . . .

I guess I’ll have to ask a follow-up/clarification kinda question:

Q: If it can’t be proven that God exists, how can it be proven that He doesn’t?

If I could think of a way to prove, definitively, that God does not exist, I could then, I’d assume, better consider the question, methinks. Can one “prove a negative?” Not sure you can. But, then again, my college Logic professor did little for me (he seemed to have “enjoyed the ‘60s” a tad too much, if you get my drift ). Of course, perhaps this isn’t even an attempt to prove a negative, and I’m only displaying my own lack of understanding . . .

Open to the idea; hey, hit me with your best shot,

-DT

[Overcomer]

I am seriously interested in this - my guess is that the answer is that nothing could stop you from believing in God...but an answer like that will add nothing to the debate.

You're right. There isn't anything that would make me not believe that God doesn't exist. I am in a relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ and the in-filling of the Holy Spirit. Christianity isn't simply a belief system as all other religions are. Christianity is a relationship as NO other religion is.

Look at it this way. You could try to convince me that my sister isn't real, but you'd be wasting your time because I have spent too much time with her, talking with her, laughing with her, crying with her, etc. to ever believe she doesn't exist.

The same is true of Jesus. I have spent too much time with him and he has revealed himself to me too many times in too many ways for me to ever believe that he isn't real.

Christianity is NOT about sitting in a church each Sunday or subscribing to a value system. It's all about relationship. If a person who spends every Sunday sitting in church is NOT in a relationship with Christ, then he or she isn't a Christian. He or she is only a person who sits in a church every Sunday!

And, as I said, a person who is in a relationship with God, that is, a true Christian and not a Christian in name only, can never stop believing in the reality of him any more than that person could stop believing in the reality of his or her family members and friends.

And you can only have that relationship with God through Jesus. That's why Islam, Hinduism, etc. are all false. They don't put a person in a relationship with God. In fact, they take him or her away from God.

P.S. Sorry about not adding anything to the debate!!!

[Piper Plexed]

I am seriously interested in this - my guess is that the answer is that nothing could stop you from believing in God...but an answer like that will add nothing to the debate.

You're right. There isn't anything that would make me not believe that God doesn't exist. I am in a relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ and the in-filling of the Holy Spirit. Christianity isn't simply a belief system as all other religions are. Christianity is a relationship as NO other religion is.

Look at it this way. You could try to convince me that my sister isn't real, but you'd be wasting your time because I have spent too much time with her, talking with her, laughing with her, crying with her, etc. to ever believe she doesn't exist.

The same is true of Jesus. I have spent too much time with him and he has revealed himself to me too many times in too many ways for me to ever believe that he isn't real.

Christianity is NOT about sitting in a church each Sunday or subscribing to a value system. It's all about relationship. If a person who spends every Sunday sitting in church is NOT in a relationship with Christ, then he or she isn't a Christian. He or she is only a person who sits in a church every Sunday!

And, as I said, a person who is in a relationship with God, that is, a true Christian and not a Christian in name only, can never stop believing in the reality of him any more than that person could stop believing in the reality of his or her family members and friends.

Yeah we can all rant about our personal relationship with God but that is not what is being asked. We have quoted the bible, spoken of our prayers being answered and no progress. Yes I believe you are right it is about relationships, though your relationship to man as well as God. Try for a moment to think like an atheist, at the very least as an exercise in understanding your fellow man, whom Jesus loves as much as he loves you. Honestly it doesn't hurt, and has been my experience that such an exercise only strengthens faith.

And you can only have that relationship with God through Jesus. That's why Islam, Hinduism, etc. are all false. They don't put a person in a relationship with God. In fact, they take him or her away from God.

This I have a problem with as how can one man know the mind and soul of another, I guess I am not ready to judge others, just doesn't sit right with my heart. I guess I will find out when I meet my judge and in the interim I will love thy neighbor. How can I truly love whom I readily condemn to hell.

[bernee51]

... I am in a relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ and the in-filling of the Holy Spirit.

How do you know it is god,,,it could be some other supernatural being who is trying to decieve you. Or it could all be a figment of your imagination, brought about by wishful thinking.

Christianity isn't simply a belief system as all other religions are. Christianity is a relationship as NO other religion is.

On what do you base this very daring assumption. I presume ytou have seriously attempted a relationship with Allah, Zeus, Odin, Krishna and all the other gods.

Look at it this way. You could try to convince me that my sister isn't real, but you'd be wasting your time because I have spent too much time with her, talking with her, laughing with her, crying with her, etc. to ever believe she doesn't exist.

she also has a mother, father, birth certificate. She has independent and objective proof of her existence.

The same is true of Jesus. I have spent too much time with him and he has revealed himself to me too many times in too many ways for me to ever believe that he isn't real.

More wishful thinking until you come up with objective proof of his existence.

And you can only have that relationship with God through Jesus. That's why Islam, Hinduism, etc. are all false. They don't put a person in a relationship with God. In fact, they take him or her away from God.

On what experience of these other belief systems do you base this assertion?

P.S. Sorry about not adding anything to the debate!!!

I don't feel shortchanged by your inability to add to the debate. Why do you feel it necessary to apologize?

[Gaunt]

Look at it this way. You could try to convince me that my sister isn't real, but you'd be wasting your time because I have spent too much time with her, talking with her, laughing with her, crying with her, etc. to ever believe she doesn't exist.

What if your sister turned out to be like John Nash's imaginary friend Charles in "A Beautiful Mind"? I mean, Nash definitely thought that his friend existed, he laughed with him, talked with him, etc, and in the end it turned out that charles was a figment of his imagination.