Are White People Evil?

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Purple Knight
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Are White People Evil?

Post #1

Post by Purple Knight »

Question for debate: Are white people an evil race, evil by nature and not just nurture?

Common wisdom says that all white people are racist. Common wisdom also says that this is largely because of upbringing in a racist system. However, there are some grounds for disagreement with the latter.

Common wisdom (the book Being White, Being Good by Barbara Applebaum) also argues that whites can never fully escape racism. Whites can put on a show, be good allies, and even do some good things, but this will always be with the motivation of escaping the stigma of racism or showing the self as good for selfish gains.

Arguably this constitutes a race of entirely evil people; people who are evil by nature, not just nurture.

Is it time to admit that lions can't thrive on a vegan diet? Or that white people simply can't help being evil incarnate? Actually making this admission has some serious and negative consequences for critical race theory, which probably stops short of this admission for just this reason.

You can't blame a lion for eating meat, because that is its nature. If racism and oppression are truly the nature of white people and they can't be trained out of it, having the expectation of better behaviour is actually pretty cruel. Repeatedly insisting that whites must experience multiculture without any racist behaviour would then simply be setting them up for failure and punishment. It would be a lot like commanding your dog to sprout wings and fly, and then beating it when it failed to do so (though the analogy is not perfect). The cruelty of this position is compounded by the real harms whites inevitably inflict against innocent people when forced to live alongside them.

The analogy of the dog beaten for not sprouting wings fails because not sprouting wings hurts no one, whereas the punishment whites rightly should incur for their hate crimes is definitely deserved. The problem comes along when you realise that if you intentionally throw a hunting dog into a rabbit pen, it will kill the rabbits. And if you know this, and if you did this, either rubbing your hands together in glee anticipating punishing the dog, or perhaps far worse, legitimately expecting the dog to just do better, the dog is still to blame, but no longer solely.

Especially if there are other options.

Total isolation. Build the wall. Take away all ill-gotten land gains that have come to whites at the hands of white theft, give them at least some land... and build the wall. Cut off all contact. Any white person who thinks they can do better and actually rid themselves of their racism (they'd be the first to succeed) is welcome to live wherever they were before (though they must buy any land they "own" from its real owners if it was ever stolen), but with the expectation that they will do better. If they don't, that's on them. However, they should also be given the option to admit they can't do better and be deported to live where they can't continue to harm anyone.

Genocide. Arguably it's not evil to destroy evil. I don't agree with the notion that evil people have just got to be killed, however, it's a viable option, and less cruel than simply punishing people for what they can't help. I wouldn't own a lion and try to make it eat vegetables. It's a sad but true admission, but if there's a lion, and nothing but you for meat, you kill the lion. I just don't believe it needs to come to that in this case.

The admission that I can't be non-racist shouldn't be followed by further commitment to just try harder. I don't see how that's fair. It's the same sort of assumptive positivity that blames people when bad things happen to them because they must have caused them by negative thinking.

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Re: Are White People Evil?

Post #2

Post by Kenisaw »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:00 pm Question for debate: Are white people an evil race, evil by nature and not just nurture?

Common wisdom says that all white people are racist. Common wisdom also says that this is largely because of upbringing in a racist system. However, there are some grounds for disagreement with the latter.
Not common wisdom. Woke wisdom. Fake, political, anti-wisdom.
Common wisdom (the book Being White, Being Good by Barbara Applebaum) also argues that whites can never fully escape racism. Whites can put on a show, be good allies, and even do some good things, but this will always be with the motivation of escaping the stigma of racism or showing the self as good for selfish gains.

Arguably this constitutes a race of entirely evil people; people who are evil by nature, not just nurture.

Is it time to admit that lions can't thrive on a vegan diet? Or that white people simply can't help being evil incarnate? Actually making this admission has some serious and negative consequences for critical race theory, which probably stops short of this admission for just this reason.

You can't blame a lion for eating meat, because that is its nature. If racism and oppression are truly the nature of white people and they can't be trained out of it, having the expectation of better behaviour is actually pretty cruel. Repeatedly insisting that whites must experience multiculture without any racist behaviour would then simply be setting them up for failure and punishment. It would be a lot like commanding your dog to sprout wings and fly, and then beating it when it failed to do so (though the analogy is not perfect). The cruelty of this position is compounded by the real harms whites inevitably inflict against innocent people when forced to live alongside them.

The analogy of the dog beaten for not sprouting wings fails because not sprouting wings hurts no one, whereas the punishment whites rightly should incur for their hate crimes is definitely deserved. The problem comes along when you realise that if you intentionally throw a hunting dog into a rabbit pen, it will kill the rabbits. And if you know this, and if you did this, either rubbing your hands together in glee anticipating punishing the dog, or perhaps far worse, legitimately expecting the dog to just do better, the dog is still to blame, but no longer solely.

Especially if there are other options.

Total isolation. Build the wall. Take away all ill-gotten land gains that have come to whites at the hands of white theft, give them at least some land... and build the wall. Cut off all contact. Any white person who thinks they can do better and actually rid themselves of their racism (they'd be the first to succeed) is welcome to live wherever they were before (though they must buy any land they "own" from its real owners if it was ever stolen), but with the expectation that they will do better. If they don't, that's on them. However, they should also be given the option to admit they can't do better and be deported to live where they can't continue to harm anyone.

Genocide. Arguably it's not evil to destroy evil. I don't agree with the notion that evil people have just got to be killed, however, it's a viable option, and less cruel than simply punishing people for what they can't help. I wouldn't own a lion and try to make it eat vegetables. It's a sad but true admission, but if there's a lion, and nothing but you for meat, you kill the lion. I just don't believe it needs to come to that in this case.

The admission that I can't be non-racist shouldn't be followed by further commitment to just try harder. I don't see how that's fair. It's the same sort of assumptive positivity that blames people when bad things happen to them because they must have caused them by negative thinking.
I can't decide if you are serious about this topic, or just looking to stir things up. Your post is, to be blunt, utter garbage. White's are not more or less racist than any other group. Racism is a human problem, with a biological evolutionary explanation...

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Re: Are White People Evil?

Post #3

Post by Purple Knight »

Kenisaw wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 3:56 pmYour post is, to be blunt, utter garbage.
Why? Because the answer to the debate question is no?

That's sad, because, as I point out, if the answer is yes, if whites really are evil and can't help being so, it pretty much breaks critical race theory. I try to be as anti-racist as possible, but critical race theory, as I see it, has one pretty glaring flaw.

If whites aren't evil by nature, why have exactly zero of them succeeded at eliminating their racism? You would almost think this was an inborn trait, not the result of nurture, and that's what has terrible consequences for critical race theory.

If whites are evil, and bound to hurt others, why is multiculture being pushed on them? The racist would probably see some phantom Jew here, rubbing his hands together in glee, anticipating punishing people for what they can't help, so he throws a rabbit in front of the wolf so he can punish the wolf. But I don't buy the nutcase conspiracies; I think the real motivation is far more damaging.

I seriously doubt you read any of it. But I'm of course not going to win any friends trying to fight for ignorant racists, even if there has been legitimate injustice against them. Thank you for reminding me of the scorpion. That'll hopefully be the last time I stick out my hand to creatures whose nature is to sting.

I have this perverse need to defend everyone if they were wronged, no matter how vile they are. I should try harder to ignore that particular urge.

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Re: Are White People Evil?

Post #4

Post by Kenisaw »

Purple Knight wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 12:15 am
Kenisaw wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 3:56 pmYour post is, to be blunt, utter garbage.
Why? Because the answer to the debate question is no?

That's sad, because, as I point out, if the answer is yes, if whites really are evil and can't help being so, it pretty much breaks critical race theory. I try to be as anti-racist as possible, but critical race theory, as I see it, has one pretty glaring flaw.

If whites aren't evil by nature, why have exactly zero of them succeeded at eliminating their racism? You would almost think this was an inborn trait, not the result of nurture, and that's what has terrible consequences for critical race theory.

If whites are evil, and bound to hurt others, why is multiculture being pushed on them? The racist would probably see some phantom Jew here, rubbing his hands together in glee, anticipating punishing people for what they can't help, so he throws a rabbit in front of the wolf so he can punish the wolf. But I don't buy the nutcase conspiracies; I think the real motivation is far more damaging.

I seriously doubt you read any of it. But I'm of course not going to win any friends trying to fight for ignorant racists, even if there has been legitimate injustice against them. Thank you for reminding me of the scorpion. That'll hopefully be the last time I stick out my hand to creatures whose nature is to sting.

I have this perverse need to defend everyone if they were wronged, no matter how vile they are. I should try harder to ignore that particular urge.
I read it all, and I read it multiple times. I don't really know you so I don't know what your typical take is on various topics. So I had to go on was what you wrote, and what you wrote didn't make me jump for joy.

First paragraph you state that "common wisdom" is that white people are racist. That might be "common wisdom" to the fringe socialeft in America, but most people would not agree with it and there is no empirical data to support that claim. Then you state that "common wisdom" blames white people's racism on the fact that they are raised in a racist system. There might be "grounds for disagreement" on that second claim according to your own words, but strangely you didn't write that there are grounds for disagreement that white people are racist.

You go on with the "common wisdom" theme in paragraph #2, and declare in paragraph #3 that it must mean that whites are just evil people.

Paragraphs #4 and #5 you basically try to debate whether whites are racist by their nature, or it is a learned behavior.

You go on to dazzle me with phrases like "the punishment that whites rightly should incur" and talk of "genocide".

You couldn't ask for a better race-baiting post even if a founding member of BLM wrote it, comrade...

CRT is nothing more than an attempt to use faux racist claims to keep the masses quite while socialists push marxism on the country.

I find your last sentence in your reply above to be particularly dishonest. To be accurate, you have a perverse need to defend everyone if they were wronged EXCEPT white people.

Every ethnic group has engaged in colonialism, imperialism, and conquest over the millennias. The only thing whites did that was different was that they were the last group to do it. I guess they learned well from history, eh?

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Re: Are White People Evil?

Post #5

Post by Purple Knight »

Kenisaw wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 1:13 amI find your last sentence in your reply above to be particularly dishonest. To be accurate, you have a perverse need to defend everyone if they were wronged EXCEPT white people.
Believe it or not, I was defending white people by calling them possibly evil by nature, not nurture.

If whites are evil by nature, their cries for less multiculture should be heeded, not ignored. Critical Race Theory really oughtn't simultaneously preach that 1) no white person can be non-racist and 2) that the best solution to 1 is to all just live together and try to get along and expect whites to just try harder and it'll all somehow work out.

Because gosh darn it, we know you can't sprout wings and fly, but if you just try harder, those wings will come in eventually! Keep at it! (This... should sound silly to anyone. However, it's the cornerstone of the cult of positive thinking, and I believe it's worked its way into Critical Race Theory.)

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Re: Are White People Evil?

Post #6

Post by Kenisaw »

Purple Knight wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 1:28 am
Kenisaw wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 1:13 amI find your last sentence in your reply above to be particularly dishonest. To be accurate, you have a perverse need to defend everyone if they were wronged EXCEPT white people.
Believe it or not, I was defending white people by calling them possibly evil by nature, not nurture.

If whites are evil by nature, their cries for less multiculture should be heeded, not ignored. Critical Race Theory really oughtn't simultaneously preach that 1) no white person can be non-racist and 2) that the best solution to 1 is to all just live together and try to get along and expect whites to just try harder and it'll all somehow work out.

Because gosh darn it, we know you can't sprout wings and fly, but if you just try harder, those wings will come in eventually! Keep at it! (This... should sound silly to anyone. However, it's the cornerstone of the cult of positive thinking, and I believe it's worked its way into Critical Race Theory.)
If I may ask, why didn't you defend white people by stating that they AREN'T evil in the first place?

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Re: Are White People Evil?

Post #7

Post by Purple Knight »

Kenisaw wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 1:42 amIf I may ask, why didn't you defend white people by stating that they AREN'T evil in the first place?
Because if white people aren't evil, that only helps the case of critical race theory.

Really there's no because, however. It's simply how I see things. I don't have an agenda. If I thought CRT was fair in every way, I would say so. However, I don't think that. I think that in asserting that white people can't change their nature but that white people have every obligation to just try harder and change their nature, CRT has crossed into the realm of the very dangerous cult of positive thinking.

The knuckle-dragging cavemen of Stormfront and other such cesspits see a phantom Jew pulling the strings because that's frankly the more reasonable explanation than the actual truth, which is that wolves are being beaten for being wolves, because people genuinely believe in this day and age that you can just wish away, or wish for, any aspect of your being that you would like.

Want to sprout wings and fly? You can do it! What? It didn't happen? Then you must not have tried hard enough, because anybody can do anything they want!

This is sick thinking. It's sick thinking and it's a form of victim blaming. When you're expecting foxes to live in the same enclosure as chickens and nobody to get eaten, because the fox can just wish not to be a fox, you've dragged the entire world into this horrible cult of positive thinking.

Another way I see this cult destroy people is that the father of the short fat kid genuinely believes his son would win any sport he wanted if he just tried hard enough.

It's not Jews. It's not the mainstream media. Nobody's out to get you.

But the cult of positive thinking will destroy you. And everyone else.

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Re: Are White People Evil?

Post #8

Post by Kenisaw »

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #7]

So you are willing to say that white people are evil because it harms critical race theory (CRT).... Sorry, that is a laughable claim.

CRT is garbage no matter what. Even a cursory examination of CRT shows how illogical and contradictory it all is. There is no need to claim a whole group of people (whites) are racist, just to disavow CRT.

You think whites are racist, plain and simple. Maybe you will find the guts to just come out and say it....

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Re: Are White People Evil?

Post #9

Post by Purple Knight »

Kenisaw wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 2:12 amSo you are willing to say that white people are evil because it harms critical race theory (CRT).... Sorry, that is a laughable claim.
The fact that it harms critical race theory for white people to be actually evil by nature and not nurture isn't why I do or say anything. I'm pointing out that it does do harm to that theory because I'm interested in the truth. I'm also pointing out that CRT seems almost deliberately to stop short of something that is hardly a leap from anything they say, and that it seems to me to be dishonest not to even bring it up.

Frankly I was hoping someone would prove that white people aren't just naturally evil, and however silly it seems, that yes, each individual racist white person is actually choosing to be evil, and even though BILLIONS OF THEM all somehow choose the same thing, with not one exception, that they all actually had a choice. It's a similar claim in my mind to the idea that vampires don't really have to drink blood; they all just choose to. I hope you can see how, in a universe with real vampires, this would be a very dangerous contention to all parties involved. I was hoping someone could still defend it, but no one seems to be able to.
Kenisaw wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 2:12 amYou think whites are racist, plain and simple. Maybe you will find the guts to just come out and say it....
I do think that all white people are racist, and I provided citations. I'm also willing to say that CRT might be flawed.
Kenisaw wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 2:12 amCRT is garbage no matter what. Even a cursory examination of CRT shows how illogical and contradictory it all is.
Just claiming something is garbage is an unsupported claim. If it has internal, irresolvable contradictions, perhaps you should state them. I don't have any such ammunition against CRT; I just said that it seemed dishonest to stop exactly short of a claim because it would ruin your theory. I have no actual evidence that CRT is false. As far as I know, all objections against CRT have been answered, though not always in a way that doesn't involve a lot of ad hoc assumptions.

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Re: Are White People Evil?

Post #10

Post by nobspeople »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:00 pm Question for debate: Are white people an evil race, evil by nature and not just nurture?

Common wisdom says that all white people are racist. Common wisdom also says that this is largely because of upbringing in a racist system. However, there are some grounds for disagreement with the latter.

Common wisdom (the book Being White, Being Good by Barbara Applebaum) also argues that whites can never fully escape racism. Whites can put on a show, be good allies, and even do some good things, but this will always be with the motivation of escaping the stigma of racism or showing the self as good for selfish gains.

Arguably this constitutes a race of entirely evil people; people who are evil by nature, not just nurture.

Is it time to admit that lions can't thrive on a vegan diet? Or that white people simply can't help being evil incarnate? Actually making this admission has some serious and negative consequences for critical race theory, which probably stops short of this admission for just this reason.

You can't blame a lion for eating meat, because that is its nature. If racism and oppression are truly the nature of white people and they can't be trained out of it, having the expectation of better behaviour is actually pretty cruel. Repeatedly insisting that whites must experience multiculture without any racist behaviour would then simply be setting them up for failure and punishment. It would be a lot like commanding your dog to sprout wings and fly, and then beating it when it failed to do so (though the analogy is not perfect). The cruelty of this position is compounded by the real harms whites inevitably inflict against innocent people when forced to live alongside them.

The analogy of the dog beaten for not sprouting wings fails because not sprouting wings hurts no one, whereas the punishment whites rightly should incur for their hate crimes is definitely deserved. The problem comes along when you realise that if you intentionally throw a hunting dog into a rabbit pen, it will kill the rabbits. And if you know this, and if you did this, either rubbing your hands together in glee anticipating punishing the dog, or perhaps far worse, legitimately expecting the dog to just do better, the dog is still to blame, but no longer solely.

Especially if there are other options.

Total isolation. Build the wall. Take away all ill-gotten land gains that have come to whites at the hands of white theft, give them at least some land... and build the wall. Cut off all contact. Any white person who thinks they can do better and actually rid themselves of their racism (they'd be the first to succeed) is welcome to live wherever they were before (though they must buy any land they "own" from its real owners if it was ever stolen), but with the expectation that they will do better. If they don't, that's on them. However, they should also be given the option to admit they can't do better and be deported to live where they can't continue to harm anyone.

Genocide. Arguably it's not evil to destroy evil. I don't agree with the notion that evil people have just got to be killed, however, it's a viable option, and less cruel than simply punishing people for what they can't help. I wouldn't own a lion and try to make it eat vegetables. It's a sad but true admission, but if there's a lion, and nothing but you for meat, you kill the lion. I just don't believe it needs to come to that in this case.

The admission that I can't be non-racist shouldn't be followed by further commitment to just try harder. I don't see how that's fair. It's the same sort of assumptive positivity that blames people when bad things happen to them because they must have caused them by negative thinking.
Evil is a qualifier people use to organize stimuli to better understand the world they live in. "Evil" knows no age, gender, race, religion, orientation, height, weight, shoe size, IQ....you get the idea.
Saying one race is 'evil' or 'good' or 'just' or 'dangerous' is erroneous and or disingenuous IMO and speaks to the idea that this person making such a claim is clueless about humanity and or seeking only to 'stir the pot', as they say.

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