Racism in America - How should we address it?

[otseng]

George Floyd’s Murder Shows Once More That We Cannot Wait For White America to End Racism

George Floyd was murdered, and it was captured on camera. Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin had his knee pinned against Floyd’s neck for close to eight minutes. We heard a haunting repetition of the words “I can’t breathe.” Floyd cried out for his deceased mother and called out for his children as he desperately clung to life. Chauvin sat there, smug, hand in his pocket, with little regard for the man dying underneath the pressure of his knee. All of this over someone allegedly trying to use a counterfeit twenty-dollar bill at a local deli.

For debate:
- How should we address the racism in America?

[otseng]

I'm afraid we're at the point where if anyone does not say things exactly perfectly and can potentially offend anyone, backlash will occur.

Metro Atlanta police chief Chris Byers made a long post on his Facebook page.

To the religious leaders in our communities. To Pastors, directors of ministries, youth Pastors,
worship leaders…To anyone who leads a congregation of faith in any religion or denomination.
You have failed us. By us I mean the men and women of the law enforcement communities and
our families. Our spouses. Our children. Our loved ones.
I write this as a Christian, church worker, and a Police Chief that is blessed to serve one of the
most courageous, righteous, and self-sacrificing segments of our communities.
Let me start by saying the death of George Floyd was done at the hands of someone evil and
vile. I along with every other member of the law enforcement community disown him as one of
our own. He was never one of us. He may have worn a badge. But that is just a hunk of metal
without the honor that backs it up. In the same way that the robe of the clergy or title as pastor
has to be backed up with the same level of honor or it means nothing. And let me say this…i
believe racism was at its core.
As a police chief trying my best to serve those I’m charged to lead, I have been holding
meetings with all of our officers to discuss what is going on in our country. To discuss the
horrific actions that lead to Mr. Floyd’s death. As well as to discuss the horrific actions of those
who are preying on our law enforcement brothers and sisters in the name of justice. There have
been tears in those meeting. Words of anger toward the wolf in sheep’s clothing that took his
life. Words of fear. And then there have been countless words that I as a Christian am ashamed
to hear. “Chief, our pastors have abandoned us”. “They have sold us out for slogans in the
name of attempting to be relevant”. “Chief, what about us?” “Why has my pastor and
congregation hash tagged organizations that condone killing us in their social media postings
and sermons?” “Chief, don’t they know that the movements they are promoting at its core
celebrates the killing of police officers simply because they wear the badge”.
I have been asked by those in our community countless times…”Do you believe black lives
matter”? My definitive answer, YES! I believe that the lives of every black man, woman, and
child matter just as much as the lives of every white man, woman, and child and police officer.
Just as with every other nationality we get the privilege of calling our neighbors and every
religion represented. But I do not support the Black Lives Matter as a movement as it seems to
glorify the killing of my brothers and sisters. It is not what you pastors and religious leaders
think it is. Stop trying to be relevant and look deeper into what you are saying, posting, and
tagging before you do it. But please..never give up the fight against racism. We have a long way
to go! But we need everybody moving in the same direction.
And hear this…I am 100 percent supportive of all of the protesting and demands for justice that
are happening now. They are valid and necessary for change. I am your biggest ally in the fight
to stamp out any racism, or corruption in our country’s police agencies. I am on the front line in
this battle. It’s my job to not only keep the “bad apples” from wearing the badge, but also to
make sure the soil in my organization and profession remains pure.
I have also been asked if I will take a knee at these protests. Taking a knee is a sign of surrender.
I will not surrender to this fight for justice. I take a knee of surrender to my Lord and Savior
alone. I will however stand with you and protect your rights to protest and have your voices
heard. And I will bow down to pray with you. To pray to make our hearts pure. My heart pure.
For us to see each other as we are…God’s creation. His Son’s and Daughter’s. Regardless of
race. To celebrate diversity. That’s what I bow for.
I have purposely not watched, read, or listened to anything the religious leaders I hold most
dear have posted in the last week. Why? Because I know that, in an attempt to appease people,
they may say things that are just not true. Because I do not want to abandon the ministries I
serve and support, I have stayed away from the sermons and social media posts. But not all of
our officers have. And you have abandoned them. Left them disillusioned. Left them
questioning if there is a place for them in your congregations and ultimately in service to the
Kingdom as a whole. Shame on you!
We have children. Wives. Husbands. They all feel abandoned by you. There will be a generation
coming of the sons and daughters of law enforcement officers that want nothing to do with
your churches because you sold out their fathers and mothers. I have two of those children
myself. I have heard it from our officers countless times in the last week. You must do better.
You must serve your entire congregations.
I will say personally I had an amazing conversation with my pastor this week. He is one that sees
all sides of the story and I love him and his leadership. He preached an amazing service this
week with two pastors of local churches made up predominately of black congregations. They
were amazing! I hate lumping my pastor in with this letter. All I can say is that I understand it
really sucks to be lumped in with the worst of the worst of your chosen profession.
You have ruined twenty-three years as a police officer and a Christian trying to bridge the gap
of faith and my brothers and sisters in blue. Shame on you.
Sincerely,
Chris Byers

Byers has been a pastor and in ministry for 25 years and has also spent 23 years in law enforcement. And he obviously took a lot of time preparing this post. Myself, I do not see anything worth censuring. Yet, in response, the city made an official statement.

Early Monday, June 8, The City of Johns Creek became aware of an AJC article referencing a social media post from Police Chief Chris Byers on his personal account. The post included his views on the Black Lives Matter movement.

The City of Johns Creek and the Johns Creek Police Department do not condone or accept any form of racism, hate, brutality, or repression. The City stands against all forms of racism and will continue to work hard to protect the rights of all our citizens regardless of race, color, or creed. The city supports people's right for peaceful protest, demonstration, and the sharing of ideas, because it is through these rights and the sharing of ideas that we can enact proactive and positive change.

“I am aware of the statement issued on the personal Facebook page of Chief Byers and I am also cognizant of where we are as a nation and as a Johns Creek community. With everything that is taking place around the U.S and the world, it’s important that we listen, understand, and make thoughtful decisions which will bring about improvements to everyone’s health, safety and quality of life,” said Ed Densmore City Manager. “We will conduct a careful review of the content and comments from the posting and explore potential next steps or actions, as appropriate. Equitable treatment and respect for each and every member of our community, including those of the Black Lives Matter movement, is part of our city’s culture.”

The City of Johns Creek recognizes the importance of seeking to understand all sides of any issue and listen to the voices of our community. For this reason, the city is working on future opportunities for potential Town Hall and/or community discussions to provide a way for residents, community leaders, faith leaders, and organizations to take part in a constructive dialogue on the issues at hand. These discussions will take place as soon as social distancing guidelines for COVID-19 deem it appropriate and safe. The city understands these discussions can and have been taking place virtually during this time but considers in-person meetings to be more impactful for discussions such as these.

“Statements made in private or on a public platform have consequences far beyond the words themselves. When someone holds a public office or public position, those words can have a far-reaching impact," said Mayor Mike Bodker. “I have known Chris Byers for more than a decade, not just as an officer and now Police Chief, but also a person of deep faith who cares strongly about all people as well as his fellow police officers. I know his words were not meant to be divisive, but rather to foster a dialogue among these different groups, including Black Lives Matter, to bring the about tangible and meaningful change many of us would like to see.”

The Johns Creek Police Department and police departments everywhere play a key and vital role in their communities. The majority of women and men within these departments across the world put their lives on the line each day to selflessly support, serve, and protect all the people, in the areas which they live and work.

View Chris Byers' Facebook post: https://www.johnscreekga.gov/JCGA/Media ... k-post.pdf

A peaceful protest is scheduled for 1 p.m. Tuesday outside the Johns Creek Police Department.

Are we able to have any honest discussion about race and is anyone really free to share their thoughts without someone getting offended?

[AgnosticBoy]

A peaceful protest is scheduled for 1 p.m. Tuesday outside the Johns Creek Police Department.

Are we able to have any honest discussion about race and is anyone really free to share their thoughts without someone getting offended?

Sadly, not when partisan politics is involved. The bad habits of politicians are to shun those who disagree, to pretend that their view is the absolute truth, and to put political ideology over logic and evidence. Isn't that what we find ordinary citizens doing right now? They're obviously getting it from the corrupt system of politics. And president Trump has put this political behavior on steroids with his divisive message. Many people are either too ignorant to realize the influence or too weak to resist it.

With that said, the Democrats have their own weaknesses so I don't think putting a Democrat in office will necessarily solve anything. Holding politicians accountable, both Democrat and Republicans, would do better. The mainstream media also plays a role. They should spend less time focusing on Trump's incendiary rhetoric and tweets, and more time focusing on his actual policies.

[emilynghiem]

Dear @otseng
I would put people in charge with years of experience
moderating dialogue and discussion to prevent this problem
of "singling out people as REPRESENTING" a group, issue or problem.

That's where things are going wrong.

The Center for the Healing of Racism teaches and facilitates forums
to mentor people in how to talk about racial experiences and perceptions
in a HEALING constructive way, minus the blame baiting that falls apart.

SEE their Guidelines I copied here
www.isocracytx.net/hp-org/CHRguide.html

If everyone who is working with a group, either BLM or police outreach
or other concerned citizens, contacts CHR for training or assistance,
maybe we can set up mentorship training so all groups can receive this
help to collaborate and communicate between police and public groups.

www.centerhealingracism.org

other nonprofits that teach nonviolent communication and collaboration in teams:
www.avpusa.org
www.rachelschallenge.org

We could just campaign to have all groups that are protesting each other
to take Rachel's Challenge and go through training workshops so they
resolve communication methods and conflicts before trying to work on policy reforms as a result.

I'm afraid we're at the point where if anyone does not say things exactly perfectly and can potentially offend anyone, backlash will occur.

Metro Atlanta police chief Chris Byers made a long post on his Facebook page.

To the religious leaders in our communities. To Pastors, directors of ministries, youth Pastors,
worship leaders…To anyone who leads a congregation of faith in any religion or denomination.
You have failed us. By us I mean the men and women of the law enforcement communities and
our families. Our spouses. Our children. Our loved ones.
I write this as a Christian, church worker, and a Police Chief that is blessed to serve one of the
most courageous, righteous, and self-sacrificing segments of our communities.
Let me start by saying the death of George Floyd was done at the hands of someone evil and
vile. I along with every other member of the law enforcement community disown him as one of
our own. He was never one of us. He may have worn a badge. But that is just a hunk of metal
without the honor that backs it up. In the same way that the robe of the clergy or title as pastor
has to be backed up with the same level of honor or it means nothing. And let me say this…i
believe racism was at its core.
As a police chief trying my best to serve those I’m charged to lead, I have been holding
meetings with all of our officers to discuss what is going on in our country. To discuss the
horrific actions that lead to Mr. Floyd’s death. As well as to discuss the horrific actions of those
who are preying on our law enforcement brothers and sisters in the name of justice. There have
been tears in those meeting. Words of anger toward the wolf in sheep’s clothing that took his
life. Words of fear. And then there have been countless words that I as a Christian am ashamed
to hear. “Chief, our pastors have abandoned us”. “They have sold us out for slogans in the
name of attempting to be relevant”. “Chief, what about us?” “Why has my pastor and
congregation hash tagged organizations that condone killing us in their social media postings
and sermons?” “Chief, don’t they know that the movements they are promoting at its core
celebrates the killing of police officers simply because they wear the badge”.
I have been asked by those in our community countless times…”Do you believe black lives
matter”? My definitive answer, YES! I believe that the lives of every black man, woman, and
child matter just as much as the lives of every white man, woman, and child and police officer.
Just as with every other nationality we get the privilege of calling our neighbors and every
religion represented. But I do not support the Black Lives Matter as a movement as it seems to
glorify the killing of my brothers and sisters. It is not what you pastors and religious leaders
think it is. Stop trying to be relevant and look deeper into what you are saying, posting, and
tagging before you do it. But please..never give up the fight against racism. We have a long way
to go! But we need everybody moving in the same direction.
And hear this…I am 100 percent supportive of all of the protesting and demands for justice that
are happening now. They are valid and necessary for change. I am your biggest ally in the fight
to stamp out any racism, or corruption in our country’s police agencies. I am on the front line in
this battle. It’s my job to not only keep the “bad apples” from wearing the badge, but also to
make sure the soil in my organization and profession remains pure.
I have also been asked if I will take a knee at these protests. Taking a knee is a sign of surrender.
I will not surrender to this fight for justice. I take a knee of surrender to my Lord and Savior
alone. I will however stand with you and protect your rights to protest and have your voices
heard. And I will bow down to pray with you. To pray to make our hearts pure. My heart pure.
For us to see each other as we are…God’s creation. His Son’s and Daughter’s. Regardless of
race. To celebrate diversity. That’s what I bow for.
I have purposely not watched, read, or listened to anything the religious leaders I hold most
dear have posted in the last week. Why? Because I know that, in an attempt to appease people,
they may say things that are just not true. Because I do not want to abandon the ministries I
serve and support, I have stayed away from the sermons and social media posts. But not all of
our officers have. And you have abandoned them. Left them disillusioned. Left them
questioning if there is a place for them in your congregations and ultimately in service to the
Kingdom as a whole. Shame on you!
We have children. Wives. Husbands. They all feel abandoned by you. There will be a generation
coming of the sons and daughters of law enforcement officers that want nothing to do with
your churches because you sold out their fathers and mothers. I have two of those children
myself. I have heard it from our officers countless times in the last week. You must do better.
You must serve your entire congregations.
I will say personally I had an amazing conversation with my pastor this week. He is one that sees
all sides of the story and I love him and his leadership. He preached an amazing service this
week with two pastors of local churches made up predominately of black congregations. They
were amazing! I hate lumping my pastor in with this letter. All I can say is that I understand it
really sucks to be lumped in with the worst of the worst of your chosen profession.
You have ruined twenty-three years as a police officer and a Christian trying to bridge the gap
of faith and my brothers and sisters in blue. Shame on you.
Sincerely,
Chris Byers

Byers has been a pastor and in ministry for 25 years and has also spent 23 years in law enforcement. And he obviously took a lot of time preparing this post. Myself, I do not see anything worth censuring. Yet, in response, the city made an official statement.

Early Monday, June 8, The City of Johns Creek became aware of an AJC article referencing a social media post from Police Chief Chris Byers on his personal account. The post included his views on the Black Lives Matter movement.

The City of Johns Creek and the Johns Creek Police Department do not condone or accept any form of racism, hate, brutality, or repression. The City stands against all forms of racism and will continue to work hard to protect the rights of all our citizens regardless of race, color, or creed. The city supports people's right for peaceful protest, demonstration, and the sharing of ideas, because it is through these rights and the sharing of ideas that we can enact proactive and positive change.

“I am aware of the statement issued on the personal Facebook page of Chief Byers and I am also cognizant of where we are as a nation and as a Johns Creek community. With everything that is taking place around the U.S and the world, it’s important that we listen, understand, and make thoughtful decisions which will bring about improvements to everyone’s health, safety and quality of life,” said Ed Densmore City Manager. “We will conduct a careful review of the content and comments from the posting and explore potential next steps or actions, as appropriate. Equitable treatment and respect for each and every member of our community, including those of the Black Lives Matter movement, is part of our city’s culture.”

The City of Johns Creek recognizes the importance of seeking to understand all sides of any issue and listen to the voices of our community. For this reason, the city is working on future opportunities for potential Town Hall and/or community discussions to provide a way for residents, community leaders, faith leaders, and organizations to take part in a constructive dialogue on the issues at hand. These discussions will take place as soon as social distancing guidelines for COVID-19 deem it appropriate and safe. The city understands these discussions can and have been taking place virtually during this time but considers in-person meetings to be more impactful for discussions such as these.

“Statements made in private or on a public platform have consequences far beyond the words themselves. When someone holds a public office or public position, those words can have a far-reaching impact," said Mayor Mike Bodker. “I have known Chris Byers for more than a decade, not just as an officer and now Police Chief, but also a person of deep faith who cares strongly about all people as well as his fellow police officers. I know his words were not meant to be divisive, but rather to foster a dialogue among these different groups, including Black Lives Matter, to bring the about tangible and meaningful change many of us would like to see.”

The Johns Creek Police Department and police departments everywhere play a key and vital role in their communities. The majority of women and men within these departments across the world put their lives on the line each day to selflessly support, serve, and protect all the people, in the areas which they live and work.

View Chris Byers' Facebook post: https://www.johnscreekga.gov/JCGA/Media ... k-post.pdf

A peaceful protest is scheduled for 1 p.m. Tuesday outside the Johns Creek Police Department.

Are we able to have any honest discussion about race and is anyone really free to share their thoughts without someone getting offended?

[otseng]

I attended the BLM rally in Johns Creek today. It was a peaceful demonstration with perhaps over 1000 people. There was no mention of Chris Byers at the rally. I spoke with several demonstrators and it didn't really seem to be on their mind. The only ones that knew about it were some pastors that were supporting BLM. Apparently the demonstration had been planned over a week ago and it was by sheer coincidence the protest happened right after Byers Facebook post.

The Johns Creek police were escorting the protestors and controlled the traffic lights for us to cross the streets. There was no tension at all between the police and the protestors.

I fortuitously met one person who seemed to be knowledgeable about the Byers situation and he knew him personally. I suspected there was a back story that caused Byers to post on Facebook. And since the public is not privy to this, there was bound to be misunderstandings of his intent. He confirmed that was the case.

Unfortunately for Byers now, there are calls for him to resign.

Georgia Police Chief Pushed To Resign Over Black Lives Matter Post

A new Georgia police chief in Johns Creek is now being called on to resign after he posted a controversial statement on his social media page regarding the Black Lives Matter movement.

https://www.bet.com/news/national/2020/ ... ebook.html

[Difflugia]

Myself, I do not see anything worth censuring.

The problem is a double standard. It is this:

I along with every other member of the law enforcement community disown him as one of our own. He was never one of us. He may have worn a badge. But that is just a hunk of metal without the honor that backs it up.

compared with this:

But I do not support the Black Lives Matter as a movement as it seems to glorify the killing of my brothers and sisters. It is not what you pastors and religious leaders think it is. Stop trying to be relevant and look deeper into what you are saying, posting, and tagging before you do it. But please..never give up the fight against racism.

Black Lives Matter does not "seem" to glorify the killing of police officers any more than police officers as a group "seem" to glorify killing black men and women. Black Lives Matter has always been about addressing police brutality in general and in particular, the difference between its infliction on black people and white people.

The police chief is expressing the same misplaced outrage as men that feel unfairly targeted by (or, more often, merely inconvenienced by) #MeToo. "Rape is terrible, but I'm getting splashed by anger from women forced to live in a culture glorifying rape. Let's tone it down." It's not about you. Rape is terrible. Full stop.

It's not about chief Byers and the (perhaps) fair and progressively-minded police officers that report to him. Police officers murdering black men and women is terrible. Full stop.

[AgnosticBoy]

A peaceful protest is scheduled for 1 p.m. Tuesday outside the Johns Creek Police Department.

Are we able to have any honest discussion about race and is anyone really free to share their thoughts without someone getting offended?

In my opinion we can have honest discussion but no one cares to. You can see examples of that even on this site. Such is politics.

[emilynghiem]

A peaceful protest is scheduled for 1 p.m. Tuesday outside the Johns Creek Police Department.

Are we able to have any honest discussion about race and is anyone really free to share their thoughts without someone getting offended?

In my opinion we can have honest discussion but no one cares to. You can see examples of that even on this site. Such is politics.

Dear @AgnosticBoy
The honest discussion starts with people who treat each other equally regardless of creed, bias or beliefs.
Then those people can bring together their friends who aren't so easily able to work with the opposite biases that offend them.
Last, the people with absolutely ZERO tolerance for the opposing views.

By organizing HONESTLY into tiers, from the all inclusive, to the partially inclusive to the mutually exclusive,
that's the FIRST STEP.

Then ACCEPTING the fact that there are people in EACH GROUP and quit blaming each other for the fact groups blame each other.
Of course they do!

For each person on the far left REFUSING to give an inch to those on the far right,
there are equal forces on the right seeing the left that way. They reinforce each other.
Let's ACCEPT that.
It is DAMAGING, but they both do it to each other.
Let's not let THAT affect the people in the middle who are CONDITIONAL
in what it would take for them to move toward full inclusion unconditionally.

We can honestly separate these different levels.
And let the people most inclusive and unconditional manage the
communications, where everyone can give their input and objections
among the group they feel comfortable sharing with. And separate
the incompatible groups, while the ones in the middle work out
reforms and address the objections (coming from the clashing groups)
so they learn to communicate, and resolve these problems effectively.

Any skilled CONFLICT RESOLUTION program can facilitate between
the groups and start organizing which leaders or volunteers can
work with the rest of their groups members.

If they can't find a local dispute resolution program, or a school
or college that has clinics in this, there are national nonprofits that can help.

Just find a forum format that works for a few people on both sides,
set up a process, and invite the rest in according to which groups they feel safe with.

Don't mix the two extremes, but let them participate within safe groups
so their objections can still be documented and presented without inciting others.

@otseng and @koko
if you are with any groups that have contacts with active leaders or members on
either side of these protests, can I work with you to set up a support process
to refer resources to cities or community groups wanting help to facilitate?

* Alternative Dispute Resolution
* Nonviolent Communication
* Center for the Healing of Racism www.centerhealingracism.org
* Alternative to Violence Project www.avpusa.org
* Rachel's Challenge www.rachelschallenge.org

Here's an example from CHR on teaching and moderating forums through the dialogue process
while keeping it safe from attacks, even when discussing sensitive race issues and experiences for healing:
www.isocracytx.net/hp-org/CHRguide.html

GUIDELINES FOR SHARING

We have come together to try to learn about the disease of racism and promote a healing process.

Sharing is voluntary.

We want to create a safe, loving and respectful atmosphere.

Sharing is about one's own feelings, experiences, perceptions, etc.

We are not always going to agree or see everything the same way and that's O.K.

Each person has a right to and responsibility for his or her own feelings, thoughts, and beliefs.

It is important to avoid criticism or judgement about another person's sharing, point of view, and/or feelings.

Avoid getting tied up in debate and argument. It rarely changes anything or anyone and tends to ultimately inhibit the sharing.

We can only change ourselves. Our change and growth may, however, inspire someone else.

Refrain from singling out any individual as "representing" his or her group or issue.

It is important to give full attention to whomever is talking.

Feelings are important.

We will surely make mistakes in our efforts, but mistakes are occasions for learning and forgiving.

We may laugh and cry together, share pain, joy, fear, or anger.

Hopefully we will leave these meetings with a deeper understanding and a renewed hope for the future of humanity.

[koko]

Well, at least one constructive step has been taken in the effort to combat racism: Minneapolis police chief withdraws MPD from its union agreement:





I have said for years that part of the problem is police union power and how it is so politically dominant. This has caused politicians to live in fear of them because any public disagreement would result in the union withdrawing political contributions and endorsements. If we are to eliminate police racism we must bankrupt all police unions, impose strict work conditions and accountability, and eliminate qualified immunity.

Had it been up to me, we would have had this 40 years ago at the very least. Now it is time for both parties to set aside their partisan differences and to work together to destroy these unions. Once done, we can bring about the other much needed reforms. Society will be FAR safer and better for it while we diminish the amount of racism that has so divided our society.

[otseng]

I have said for years that part of the problem is police union power and how it is so politically dominant. This has caused politicians to live in fear of them because any public disagreement would result in the union withdrawing political contributions and endorsements. If we are to eliminate police racism we must bankrupt all police unions, impose strict work conditions and accountability, and eliminate qualified immunity.

It seems like only when there's a threat of defunding (or even dismantling) could there be a willingness to change the system.

Also, it seems like the system indirectly encourages the police to use excessive force. A police union member could get paid administrative leave after being accused of misconduct.

One of the more contentious clauses in the current contract is the provision that allows officers who are accused of on-the-job misconduct or involved in a critical incident to go on paid administrative leave.

An involved officer will be placed on leave for a minimum of three days, but sometimes that time off can stretch for several weeks, and even months, depending on where an internal investigation leads. In one notable case, a since-fired officer was paid $54,450.53 while sitting at home for nearly 10 months after being suspended for improper behavior, city records show.

https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis ... 571159242/

[koko]

What is worse is how criminal police can still get taxpayer financed pensions in excess of $1 million dollars even if convicted:


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/derek-chau ... -benefits/


This problem can easily be remedied as I wrote above - end all qualified immunity, imposed strict liability and accountability upon the cops and their administrators, and absolve the public from any liability.

George Floyd should not have died. Same with all those innocent blacks murdered because of this police imposed holocaust. I have mentioned these remedies on other websites for years. While I am glad that people are finally listening, I wonder - how much longer do we have to wait until these correctives are imposed?