The Defund the Police movement

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AgnosticBoy
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The Defund the Police movement

Post #1

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Is the defund police movement simply reactionary or is it based on reasoned thought? Usually when emotions run high people act on their feelings to satisfy them. That is distinct from reasoned thought which all policy should be based on.

Later I'll post a video of Minnesota mayor being attacked. He's also a Democrat. Perhaps this helps to show that a lot of the policies coming from the left are just rooted in anger.


Look at the anger based interaction in this video starting at the :55 minute mark:


Video of Minnesota Democrat mayor Jacob Frey being cursed out and shunned by fellow Democrats. Bottle is thrown at him towards the end of the video.

koko

Re: The Defund the Police movement

Post #2

Post by koko »

Perhaps that bottle was instrumental in compelling police chief Arradondo to withdraw the city from negotiations with the corrupt police union:




Arradondo who is even more liberal than Frey has openly expressed his disgust with the killer cop and refused to mention his name during the speech.

Bankrupting the union is only one step in the effort to defund (not to eliminate the police department). There are more steps to follow. Let us have the elimination of qualified immunity, next. That's when the real healing will start to take place.

By the way, killing off unions and forcing bureaucratic accountability are (theoretically speaking) CONSERVATIVE solutions to these problems.

So let's have all forum conservatives endorse what you have just read here. Anyone who fails to do so cannot honestly claim to be a principled conservative.

koko

Re: The Defund the Police movement

Post #3

Post by koko »

Agnostic Boy

Video of Minnesota Democrat mayor Jacob Frey being cursed out and shunned by fellow Democrats.

As a Minnesotan, I know for a fact that the state has a great many independent voters (myself included) and that the majority of locals in BLM are white. Please provide proof that these people here who booed, cursed at, or disapproved of Mayor Frey's comments are Democrats.

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Re: The Defund the Police movement

Post #4

Post by AgnosticBoy »

koko wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:30 am
Agnostic Boy

Video of Minnesota Democrat mayor Jacob Frey being cursed out and shunned by fellow Democrats.

As a Minnesotan, I know for a fact that the state has a great many independent voters (myself included) and that the majority of locals in BLM are white. Please provide proof that these people here who booed, cursed at, or disapproved of Mayor Frey's comments are Democrats.
You bring up White people being the majority of the BLM movement. From talking to some black friends I think there needs to be some caution with white people taking too much charge in that movement. Because eventually it could appear that White people are dictating to Blacks what policies should be in place to fix racism when many think that White people are the very cause of racism.

For instance look at Biden making comments that involves determining who's black and who's not. He is on record as saying that if you don't vote for him then you're not Black. Another white guy trying to decide blackness? :D
Last edited by AgnosticBoy on Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

koko

Re: The Defund the Police movement

Post #5

Post by koko »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:43 am You bring up White people being the majority of the BLM movement. From talking to some black friends I think there needs to be some caution with white people not taking too much charge in that movement. Because eventually it could appear that White people are dictating to Blacks what policies should be in place to fix racism when many think that White people are the very cause of racism.

For instance look at Biden making comments that involves determining who's black and who's not. He is on record as saying that if you don't vote for him then you're not Black. Another white guy trying to decide blackness? :D

I have a friend from the Cameroons in West Africa who lives at the St Paul epicenter of the recent violence (I lived only a few blocks from that area for several years). We had a recent phone conversation where he acknowledged that the majority of BLM members in the Twin Cities are white. Check any newscast from any of the local media for confirmation.

As for Biden, I read where he claimed to have been satirical when he made that statement. Don't know if his new viewpoint is true or if he is making up for it. Whatever the case, he has taken it back. This unlike Trump who called Mexicans "rapists", said Haitians, El Salvadoreans, and Africans are "____hole nations" and did not take any of that back. All must be held accountable for their errors. ALL.


Meantime, I see no proof that Democrats attacked Mayor Frey. If anything, they (council members) met in special conference and agreed to undertake major reform as per his bidding. Thus, they appear to be set on finally making the necessary reforms we need to stop all this police terrorism. Let's hope it works.

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Re: The Defund the Police movement

Post #6

Post by AgnosticBoy »

I say we defund the police, and let militias take over. Each neighborhood should have a militia. The militias should be regular people who are well-armed but also organized. Let the black neighborhoods have their own militias, let the white neighborhoods have their own militias, and let the mixed communities have their own militias, and so forth. :D

koko

Re: The Defund the Police movement

Post #7

Post by koko »

A few years ago Detroit had a terrible mess when its auto industry declined. Thankfully it was saved by President Obama and the city has rebounded. Right wingers made a great deal of political hay because of the problems in that city by claiming it was proof that liberal politics were responsible for it. This while side stepping the issue that farms were in far worse shape and that this was caused by right wing politics. While Detroit was in bad shape, Camden New Jersey was worse.

Among the many problems there was police abuses. What solutions did the city apply in order to solve the problem? Camden disbanded the police!


https://tinyurl.com/ybspfujx


The result was an unqualified success.

Now it is time for all cities to do the same and society will be better for doing so.

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Re: The Defund the Police movement

Post #8

Post by AgnosticBoy »

koko wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:35 am A few years ago Detroit had a terrible mess when its auto industry declined. Thankfully it was saved by President Obama and the city has rebounded. Right wingers made a great deal of political hay because of the problems in that city by claiming it was proof that liberal politics were responsible for it. This while side stepping the issue that farms were in far worse shape and that this was caused by right wing politics. While Detroit was in bad shape, Camden New Jersey was worse.

Among the many problems there was police abuses. What solutions did the city apply in order to solve the problem? Camden disbanded the police![/size]


https://tinyurl.com/ybspfujx


The result was an unqualified success.

Now it is time for all cities to do the same and society will be better for doing so.
Camden didn't just disband, but they also remade the police department. That's different than the groups who don't want any police at all. Also, some sources mention that there is still crime there although it is reduced.

In my view of we put more money into education and trades, which may be able to be done with or without reducing police funding, then that alone would solve a lot of problems.

koko

Re: The Defund the Police movement

Post #9

Post by koko »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:32 am
Camden didn't just disband, but they also remade the police department. That's different than the groups who don't want any police at all. Also, some sources mention that there is still crime there although it is reduced.

In my view of we put more money into education and trades, which may be able to be done with or without reducing police funding, then that alone would solve a lot of problems.

The Camden model is what people are calling for here in the Twin Cities. I would go a step further in electing marshals to guarantee oversight and acountability but will leave that up to people smarter than me to develop a better plan.

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Re: The Defund the Police movement

Post #10

Post by otseng »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:59 am Is the defund police movement simply reactionary or is it based on reasoned thought?
At a minimum, there needs to be some reform in law enforcement. There's too much discrimination, excessive use of force, harassment, deception, and abuse of power. Of course, there can be exceptional precincts and honorable police officers, but it seems to be a systemic problem.

From a former policeman:
In fact, let me tell you about an extremely formative experience: in my police academy class, we had a clique of around six trainees who routinely bullied and harassed other students: intentionally scuffing another trainee’s shoes to get them in trouble during inspection, sexually harassing female trainees, cracking racist jokes, and so on. Every quarter, we were to write anonymous evaluations of our squadmates. I wrote scathing accounts of their behavior, thinking I was helping keep bad apples out of law enforcement and believing I would be protected. Instead, the academy staff read my complaints to them out loud and outed me to them and never punished them, causing me to get harassed for the rest of my academy class. That’s how I learned that even police leadership hates rats. That’s why no one is “changing things from the inside.” They can’t, the structure won’t allow it.

And that’s the point of what I’m telling you. Whether you were my sergeant, legally harassing an old woman, me, legally harassing our residents, my fellow trainees bullying the rest of us, or “the bad apples” illegally harassing “shitbags”, we were all in it together. I knew cops that pulled women over to flirt with them. I knew cops who would pepper spray sleeping bags so that homeless people would have to throw them away. I knew cops that intentionally provoked anger in suspects so they could claim they were assaulted. I was particularly good at winding people up verbally until they lashed out so I could fight them. Nobody spoke out. Nobody stood up. Nobody betrayed the code.

To understand why all cops are bastards, you need to understand one of the things almost every training officer told me when it came to using force: “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.” Meaning, “I’ll take my chances in court rather than risk getting hurt”. We’re able to think that way because police unions are extremely overpowered and because of the generous concept of Qualified Immunity, a legal theory which says a cop generally can’t be held personally liable for mistakes they make doing their job in an official capacity.

When you look at the actions of the officers who killed George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, David McAtee, Mike Brown, Tamir Rice, Philando Castile, Eric Garner, or Freddie Gray, remember that they, like me, were trained to recite “I’d rather be judged by 12” as a mantra. Even if Mistakes Were Made™, the city (meaning the taxpayers, meaning you) pays the settlement, not the officer.

Understand: Police officers are part of the state monopoly on violence and all police training reinforces this monopoly as a cornerstone of police work, a source of honor and pride. Many cops fantasize about getting to kill someone in the line of duty, egged on by others that have. One of my training officers told me about the time he shot and killed a mentally ill homeless man wielding a big stick. He bragged that he “slept like a baby” that night. Official training teaches you how to be violent effectively and when you’re legally allowed to deploy that violence, but “unofficial training” teaches you to desire violence, to expand the breadth of your violence without getting caught, and to erode your own compassion for desperate people so you can justify punitive violence against them.

If you take nothing else away from this essay, I want you to tattoo this onto your brain forever: if a police officer is telling you something, it is probably a lie designed to gain your compliance.

What’s my solution for them, you’re no doubt asking. I’ll tell you what: generational poverty, food insecurity, houselessness, and for-profit medical care are all problems that can be solved in our lifetimes by rejecting the dehumanizing meat grinder of capitalism and white supremacy. Once that’s done, we can work on the edge cases together, with clearer hearts not clouded by a corrupt system.

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