Purpose of spotlight on racism

Debate and discussion on racism and related issues

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otseng
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Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #1

Post by otseng »

The issue of racism is personally important for me and I also believe important for this country and the world.

This forum will contain debate and discussions anything related to racism. As usual, please uphold the rules and be civil and respectful.

In order to foster open discussion, there will be no censorship of different perspectives. Please respect the opinions and beliefs of other people.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #11

Post by otseng »

Purple Knight wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:33 pm That said, I would be willing to debate the pro side as long as no one thinks I actually believe it and no one bans me for it. You know, since you appear to have banned everyone who actually believes the pro side.
Nobody was banned for their position. Anyone can argue for any position as long as it is done with civility and respect.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #12

Post by Purple Knight »

otseng wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:27 pm
Purple Knight wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:33 pm That said, I would be willing to debate the pro side as long as no one thinks I actually believe it and no one bans me for it. You know, since you appear to have banned everyone who actually believes the pro side.
Nobody was banned for their position. Anyone can argue for any position as long as it is done with civility and respect.
Yes, but racism is uncivil by definition. Thinking some people are not worth as much as others is uncivil by definition.

"Question for Debate: Is Purple Knight a Lying Sack of Barf?"

If someone started a topic like that, that would be pretty nasty. You wouldn't allow them to feign ignorance of that fact by saying, "What? That's just my opinion. I'm being civil here. Let's have a civil debate on the topic, shall we?"

The trouble is, you started the topic and invited people to debate the pro side. You'd be within the rules to still ban anyone who argued for racism, but it would be a nasty trick.

It's the sort of nasty trick racists are accustomed to having played on them. They're the butt of every joke, and the whipping boy for every one of society's ills. All for having an opinion. Granted it would be like having the opinion that murder is okay, but I feel like even if someone did have the opinion that murder was okay, they wouldn't be subject to that kind of treatment. In fact, there are people who murder, called murderers, and nobody really thinks all that ill of them.

It's a trick I don't deserve to have played on me because I'm not a racist. But if you want the debate, and you're willing not to ban me for having an opinion I don't have (this also includes going over what I say with a fine-toothed comb with the aim of finding anything that can be misconstrued as uncivil) you shall have it.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #13

Post by otseng »

Purple Knight wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:17 pm But if you want the debate, and you're willing not to ban me for having an opinion I don't have (this also includes going over what I say with a fine-toothed comb with the aim of finding anything that can be misconstrued as uncivil) you shall have it.
It is definitely not an easy task to discuss racism without strong emotions getting involved. But, where it would cross the line is personally attacking others. We try to be transparent about this and everyone can see why people have been banned.

I do not have the desire to ban people who genuinely want to debate. I think we've been quite patient with those have differing opinions and given them many chances to be respectful. But, if people cannot be civil, then eventually they will get banned.

One of the main reasons the racism subforum was created was to allow different perspectives to be shared. The current climate silences anyone that does not agree with them. But, if we're to have any progress on this issue, we need to have open communication, instead of censuring ideas that we don't agree with.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #14

Post by Purple Knight »

otseng wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:37 pmIt is definitely not an easy task to discuss racism without strong emotions getting involved. But, where it would cross the line is personally attacking others.
You have to understand (and perhaps racists do not) that arguing that black people are not as good as white people is attacking black people, and those people are others. If you argue the pro side, you are personally attacking many, many others.

You would have to make a specific exception for this specific issue,
exactly as you would if you actually wanted to debate the issue of whether or not Purple Knight is a lying sack of barf. The only reason I'm calling on you to do this is because I have every reason (and racists have every reason) to expect the nasty trick - deliberately allowing the debate "as long as it's civil" but banning them because their opinion is uncivil by definition.

This is what is done to them day in and day out: The more intelligent delight in tricking them and tormenting them for their inappropriate views. Everyone who has ever called for honest discussion before has ended up wanting to trick them, out them, shame them, insult their intelligence, punish them in the real world, or some combination thereof. It's hardly surprising that they retreat deeper into a group (other racists) who aren't out to hurt and punish them, since everyone else actually is.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #15

Post by otseng »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:12 am You have to understand (and perhaps racists do not) that arguing that black people are not as good as white people is attacking black people, and those people are others. If you argue the pro side, you are personally attacking many, many others.
Interesting. How would you phrase the actual question for debate?

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #16

Post by Purple Knight »

otseng wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:03 amInteresting. How would you phrase the actual question for debate?
That's just what I'm saying. I don't think you can have that debate, because anyone who argues the pro side is in violation of the rules. They are disrespecting many people, not just one or a few.

How would you phrase the question if you wanted to have a debate on whether or not Purple Knight is a lying sack of barf? You can make it sound nice I'm sure, but this is only fooling people. You can't make something fundamentally nasty into something nice just by using polite phraseology.

That's why you must make the exception if you want the debate. You must allow the uncivility even if it's only the uncivility inherent in the position itself and any unnecessary uncivility is still out of bounds. For example, you could say only attacks necessary to make your point, so citing The Bell Curve is in-bounds even though it's an attack on the intelligence of black people, but a directed and unnecessary attack is still foul. You're the mods; you're welcome to make the exception or not, as is your prerogative.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #17

Post by otseng »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:44 am That's just what I'm saying. I don't think you can have that debate, because anyone who argues the pro side is in violation of the rules. They are disrespecting many people, not just one or a few.
You must have some debate question in mind, so that's what I'm asking for.

The topic of racism in itself is not uncivil. We already have dozens of threads created under this subforum. So, it is possible to discuss racism in a respectful manner. I'm not going to just give a blanket statement that from now on no rules apply to the subforum. But, we can look more at what you have in mind and see how we can have a discussion on it, even if it perhaps is controversial and unpopular.

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Re: Purpose of spotlight on racism

Post #18

Post by Sallymilr »

I think one of the main issues is that we still have politicians who spread doubt in our society and flare up the racist feelings! Take for example the outrageous white privilege comments back in 2019 by Caylan Ford. I was reading about it the other day here https://www.vice.com/en/article/eve9qe/ ... ing-points ,and could not believe how people still expect to be elected or even be considered as candidates with such outdated ideologies.

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