Regarding the protests.

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Elijah John
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Regarding the protests.

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Regarding the protests arising from the killing of George Floyd, several questions and observations for debate.

1) Are protests granted without permits nowadays? Have all these US cities given all these protesters permits to protest? And for how long?

2) Can protesters who block traffic and scream at motorists still be considered "peaceful protestors"? Where is the bar set for a "peaceful protest"? Simply no physical violence, looting or destruction of other people's property? Seems a very low bar indeed. Do "peaceful protesters" even meet this low bar?

3) Is there any such crime as "disturbing the peace" anymore? Are "peaceful protesters" keeping or disturbing the peace?

4) Are folks who chant and scream "no justice no peace" really intent on peaceful protest? Or is this incitement to violence and threatening behavior. Should people who chant this be held accountable for rioting and looting that almost always follows their "peaceful" protests and chanting?

5) Does engaging in protests and rioting confer immunity on people from contracting the Covid 19 virus? Why do so many politicians condone the protests while insisting that opening businesses, visiting relatives or attending other gatherings put everyone at risk for the virus? Is there a vaccine for hypocrisy?

6) Whatever happened to the prayerful, candlelight vigil as a form of protest? Don't prayerful, candlelight vigils really better exemplify the peaceful protest?

7) And finally, is the right to protest and unlimited right? If so, where are the protests for protection of police? For the preservation of Western Civilization and it's monuments? Cant people protest unjust killings on both sides?
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koko

Re: Regarding the protests.

Post #21

Post by koko »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:30 am
Andy Berg, Board Supervisor in Kenosha County, Wisconsin, said in a CNN interview that there are reports that Jacob Blake said he had a knife, and was heading to the driver's side to get the knife. If true, then this was likely a justified shooting. This is why we need to wait for all of the facts to come out. But for obvious POLITICAL reasons, many are not willing to wait for that.

Sounds convenient but, yes, let's wait for all the facts to be fully ascertained. After all, society believed the police accounts during the Central Park Five incident. Remember how racist Rush Limbaugh said it was proof that black men were all out to get white women and how Trump called for the death penalty? Then it turned out that police beat and tortured those innocent guys into confessing to a crime they did not commit.

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Re: Regarding the protests.

Post #22

Post by AgnosticBoy »

koko wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:12 am
AgnosticBoy wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:30 am
Andy Berg, Board Supervisor in Kenosha County, Wisconsin, said in a CNN interview that there are reports that Jacob Blake said he had a knife, and was heading to the driver's side to get the knife. If true, then this was likely a justified shooting. This is why we need to wait for all of the facts to come out. But for obvious POLITICAL reasons, many are not willing to wait for that.

Sounds convenient but, yes, let's wait for all the facts to be fully ascertained.
I appreciate you acknowledging that we need to wait for the facts to come out before drawing conclusions and taking action. I wish all of the protesters and sports teams would do the same.

koko

Re: Regarding the protests.

Post #23

Post by koko »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:37 am
I appreciate you acknowledging that we need to wait for the facts to come out before drawing conclusions and taking action. I wish all of the protesters and sports teams would do the same.

Indeed. Meanwhile, we can pose question such as why police feel it was necessary for them to shoot someone in the back who had a knife (but apparently dropped it in full view of everyone) but did not feel compelled to shoot as a white teen who openly displayed a rifle which he (allegedly) shot three people.

This should prove to be interesting.

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Re: Regarding the protests.

Post #24

Post by AgnosticBoy »

koko wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:45 am
AgnosticBoy wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:37 am
I appreciate you acknowledging that we need to wait for the facts to come out before drawing conclusions and taking action. I wish all of the protesters and sports teams would do the same.

Indeed. Meanwhile, we can pose question such as why police feel it was necessary for them to shoot someone in the back who had a knife (but apparently dropped it in full view of everyone) but did not feel compelled to shoot as a white teen who openly displayed a rifle which he (allegedly) shot three people.

This should prove to be interesting.
I can answer some of those questions. The black guy, Jacob Blake was resisting arrest. The white teen you referring to was not resisting arrest and was legally open carrying his weapon.

Why was Jacob Blake, the black suspect, walking back towards his car (after breaking away from police custody,)? Was he going for a knife, perhaps a second knife or weapon that he had?

koko

Re: Regarding the protests.

Post #25

Post by koko »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:49 am

I can answer some of those questions. The black guy, Jacob Blake was resisting arrest. The white teen you referring to was not resisting arrest and was legally open carrying his weapon.

Why was Jacob Blake, the black suspect, walking back towards his car (after breaking away from police custody,)? Was he going for a knife, perhaps a second knife or weapon that he had?

We can also ask, why was Jacob Blake being arrested as he was only trying to stop a fight between two people? Since when is trying to be a peace maker (a role mandated by the Bible) such a crime? Had he been white and was trying to stop a fight, would he have been arrested?

And was Kyle Rittnhouse not arrested when told he just shot someone? "A bystander repeatedly yells that “that dude just shot someone,” but an officer in one vehicle simply asks if anyone is injured and drives toward the slain and wounded protesters — leaving the shooter to walk away."

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/26/2140 ... tification

Again, had he been black, what would the cops have done?

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Re: Regarding the protests.

Post #26

Post by AgnosticBoy »

koko wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:56 pm We can also ask, why was Jacob Blake being arrested as he was only trying to stop a fight between two people? Since when is trying to be a peace maker (a role mandated by the Bible) such a crime? Had he been white and was trying to stop a fight, would he have been arrested?
It is unclear what Jacob's role was before the arrest. But one thing that's clear is that he resisted arrest and walked towards the driver side of his car. That's a very bad move for anyone of any race to do, and it presents a danger to the cops because people have attacked cops using weapons from their car. According to District Attorney Mike Graveley, Jacob Blake (the suspect) had a knife in the driver's seat of the car. Watch this short video:
https://www.wbay.com/2020/08/26/doj-jac ... rrest-him/ (watch at 1:10 minute mark).
koko wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:56 pmAnd was Kyle Rittnhouse not arrested when told he just shot someone? "A bystander repeatedly yells that “that dude just shot someone,” but an officer in one vehicle simply asks if anyone is injured and drives toward the slain and wounded protesters — leaving the shooter to walk away."
DId you or your source consider that the officer did not hear everything being said given that he was inside a police car and at a distance from those yelling to him about a shooter? Besides that, teh shooter may've not been arrested initially because he could've used his weapon out of self-defense. From the videos I've seen, he was being chased and a few people tried to take his weapon. Why were people trying to assault him and take his weapon when he had every legal right to carry it? It is ABSOLUTELY insane for UNarmed and UNtrained people to chase after a shooter. If someone was chasing after a BLM member with a gun, I'd say that person deserves to be shot, as well. Why the hek are you chasing someone who is legally authorized to have a gun?

koko

Re: Regarding the protests.

Post #27

Post by koko »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:45 pm
It is unclear what Jacob's role was before the arrest. But one thing that's clear is that he resisted arrest and walked towards the driver side of his car. That's a very bad move for anyone of any race to do, and it presents a danger to the cops because people have attacked cops using weapons from their car. According to District Attorney Mike Graveley, Jacob Blake (the suspect) had a knife in the driver's seat of the car. Watch this short video:
https://www.wbay.com/2020/08/26/doj-jac ... rrest-him/ (watch at 1:10 minute mark).


DId you or your source consider that the officer did not hear everything being said given that he was inside a police car and at a distance from those yelling to him about a shooter? Besides that, teh shooter may've not been arrested initially because he could've used his weapon out of self-defense. From the videos I've seen, he was being chased and a few people tried to take his weapon. Why were people trying to assault him and take his weapon when he had every legal right to carry it? It is ABSOLUTELY insane for UNarmed and UNtrained people to chase after a shooter. If someone was chasing after a BLM member with a gun, I'd say that person deserves to be shot, as well. Why the hek are you chasing someone who is legally authorized to have a gun?


Unclear? If so, then it is clear police did not have probable cause which must exist before they can arrest anyone.

Wisconsin does have open carry laws. However, that only applies to those 18 and over. Rittenhouse is 17 and violated the law:


Kyle Rittenhouse, a 17-year-old militia member who has been arrested and is facing a homicide charge in the matter, was not old enough to legally carry the assault-style rifle he had, according to statutes, which say anyone under 18 who "goes armed" with any deadly weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.


https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/cri ... 444231001/


See generally Wis. Stat. § 948.60.

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Re: Regarding the protests.

Post #28

Post by AgnosticBoy »

koko wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:03 am Unclear? If so, then it is clear police did not have probable cause which must exist before they can arrest anyone.
Apparently you are lacking in facts. Jacob Blake had a WARRANT out for his arrest. That's probable cause enough for arrest. Here are the facts that you have left out:
According to the record, Blake has an arrest warrant filed against him on July 7, 2020 in Kenosha, Wisconsin for an incident involving domestic abuse that happened on May 3. The offenses listed are criminal trespass to dwelling, third-degree sexual assault and disorderly conduct.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN25N2ZO

Are you really familiar with this case? If so, why do you keep leaving out KEY details? Don't just listen to HYPe or rumor, use your computer and do some real research from credible sources.

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Re: Regarding the protests.

Post #29

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

Elijah John wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 pm Regarding the protests arising from the killing of George Floyd, several questions and observations for debate.

1) Are protests granted without permits nowadays? Have all these US cities given all these protesters permits to protest? And for how long?
Protesters are indeed granted permits to protest; have you ever heard of the First Amendment?

The Constitution of the United States is their "permit".
Elijah John wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 pm 2) Can protesters who block traffic and scream at motorists still be considered "peaceful protestors"?
Can police officers who kill unarmed black people be still considered "peace officers"?
Elijah John wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 pm Where is the bar set for a "peaceful protest"?
Where is the bar set for "peace officers"?
Elijah John wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 pm Simply no physical violence, looting or destruction of other people's property? Seems a very low bar indeed. Do "peaceful protesters" even meet this low bar?
Protesters that aren't physically violent or looting/destroying OPP....I would deem such activities as "peaceful". Don't you?
Elijah John wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 pm 3) Is there any such crime as "disturbing the peace" anymore? Are "peaceful protesters" keeping or disturbing the peace?
And I will argue that the shooting/killing of unarmed black people are the worse examples of "disturbing the peace".
Elijah John wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 pm 4) Are folks who chant and scream "no justice no peace" really intent on peaceful protest? Or is this incitement to violence and threatening behavior.
Are police officers who took an oath to "serve and protect" really intent on "serving and protecting" the community?
Elijah John wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 pmShould people who chant this be held accountable for rioting and looting that almost always follows their "peaceful" protests and chanting?
Post hoc fallacy.
Elijah John wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 pm 5) Does engaging in protests and rioting confer immunity on people from contracting the Covid 19 virus? Why do so many politicians condone the protests while insisting that opening businesses, visiting relatives or attending other gatherings put everyone at risk for the virus? Is there a vaccine for hypocrisy?
Ok, so as long as protesters keep their 6 ft distancing...everything will be cool?
Elijah John wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 pm 6) Whatever happened to the prayerful, candlelight vigil as a form of protest? Don't prayerful, candlelight vigils really better exemplify the peaceful protest?
Martin Luther King Jr and his followers, who were all advocates of peaceful protests tried this...but that still wasn't good enough...as they were still beaten, arrested, sprayed with high powered water hoses, and were attacked by police dogs..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_to_ ... ry_marches

We are no longer asking for justice and equality. We are now demanding it.
Elijah John wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 pm 7) And finally, is the right to protest and unlimited right? If so, where are the protests for protection of police?
I don't know. Go down to your local police dept and ask them "where are the protests for protection of police".
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Re: Regarding the protests.

Post #30

Post by Bust Nak »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:45 pm That's a very bad move for anyone of any race to do, and it presents a danger to the cops because people have attacked cops using weapons from their car.
Bad move on Blake's part does not equate to a good move on Sheskey's part, same for chasing after armed individuals.

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