Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

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Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

Post #1

Post by otseng »

Rueters wrote:
The world's largest Confederate Monument faces renewed calls for removal

Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial, a nine-story-high bas-relief sculpture carved into a sprawling rock face northeast of Atlanta, is perhaps the South's most audacious monument to its pro-slavery legacy still intact.

Despite long-standing demands for the removal of what many consider a shrine to racism, the giant depiction of three Confederate heroes on horseback still towers ominously over the Georgia countryside, protected by state law.
Is the carving a shrine to racism?
Should the carving be removed?

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Re: Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

Post #21

Post by Difflugia »

Quantrill wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:18 pmWhy do you ignore what I said about Jeff Davs.?

Once the South seceded, they were not part of the U.S.
That's only if the secession had actually happened. The South attempted to secede, but failed. Every relevant Supreme Court decision has denied the legal right of unilateral secession and the CSA failed to win its war against the United States, so there was neither a de jure nor de facto secession.
Quantrill wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:18 pmThey could be considered the 'enemy'...but not traitor.
They were at war with the United States and (mostly) citizens of the United States, so they were both.

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Re: Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

Post #22

Post by Quantrill »

Difflugia wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:40 pm
That's only if the secession had actually happened. The South attempted to secede, but failed. Every relevant Supreme Court decision has denied the legal right of unilateral secession and the CSA failed to win its war against the United States, so there was neither a de jure nor de facto secession.

They were at war with the United States and (mostly) citizens of the United States, so they were both.
Secession did happen. That was why there was war. The South lost the war and therefore were now conquered. Just look at the reconstruction era involving bringing them back into the Union.

The Supreme Court after the war plays no role in the Supreme Court or the Constitution before the War. That was changed by the 'victors'. Why was it changed? Because it supported the South.

No, you can call the South enemy. But you can't call it traitor. It was not traitor. The North was traitor to the Constitution.

Why do you ignore the trial of Jeff Davis?

Quantrill

koko

Re: Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

Post #23

Post by koko »

Quantrill wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:50 pm
koko wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:43 pm
Hate to say it but that's a stupid thing to say since I was a member of a historical society for many years and was one of its principle reseachers. Doesn't matter whether you like what I say or not but the fact remains that my knowledge of American history is vastly superior to yours. As a child I read much about the Civil War including information about traitors Davis and Lee. For some reason which I cannot recall after all these decades, I was fascinated by those rebellious subversives. Read even more stuff in my adulthood. The usual sanction for betraying your country is the firing squad. They were lucky they got a slight tap on the wrist by the government after the war. No surprise that right wing America haters support them as much as they do. Naturally, it follows that we patriots know better.
Nice speech. But empty.

So...Mr. historian...take me through the reason they didn't hang Jeff Davis and instead set him free.

As a 'principle researcher' you should have the desire and the tools to such information. What happened?

Quantrill



Just a reminder that forum rules require you to remain on topic which is the mountain carving and not history lessons. Kindly stick to the topic and desist from needless distractions.

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Re: Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

Post #24

Post by Quantrill »

koko wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:15 am
Just a reminder that forum rules require you to remain on topic which is the mountain carving and not history lessons. Kindly stick to the topic and desist from needless distractions.
You're the one that presented yourself as some sort of 'historian'. Now you want to avoid the history. Why would a 'historian' want to avoid history?

The true history is all important in the Stone Mountain monument. Just as the true history is all important in all of the Confederate monuments.

But, truth and history is not what you and others are after. Lies and myths are what you are after because it gives you reason to vent your hatred against the Southern white people.

History threatens you. And, you haven't answered my questions concerning the trial of Jeff Davis.

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Re: Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

Post #25

Post by historia »

otseng wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:20 am
I am against erasing history, even if we don't like it. We should not venerate any of the Confederate leaders, but neither should we forget the past. History serves as a lesson and reminder to us of what we've been through.
Agreed. And, our society provides a ready-made solution for this in the form of museums, books, documentaties, and the like.

We don't need statues or monuments venerating men who took up arms against the United States to remember the past.

koko

Re: Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

Post #26

Post by koko »

Quantrill wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:13 pm
koko wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:15 am
Just a reminder that forum rules require you to remain on topic which is the mountain carving and not history lessons. Kindly stick to the topic and desist from needless distractions.
You're the one that presented yourself as some sort of 'historian'. Now you want to avoid the history. Why would a 'historian' want to avoid history?

The true history is all important in the Stone Mountain monument. Just as the true history is all important in all of the Confederate monuments.

But, truth and history is not what you and others are after. Lies and myths are what you are after because it gives you reason to vent your hatred against the Southern white people.

History threatens you. And, you haven't answered my questions concerning the trial of Jeff Davis.

Quantrill




Funny that you accuse someone of hatred when you defend a traitor like Jefferson Davis who killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and while asserting this delusionalism: "Blacks are wanting to remake America in it's image. And image is all they can create. They are not able to create a civilization of their own. They have to take over one and try and make it their own. The problem is, as soon as it is their own, it turns into a cesspool." That's real hatred.

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Re: Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

Post #27

Post by DavidLeon »

This is the sort of thing where I just sit back and watch people and marvel at their ways. I've never heard of this place. First of all I can't believe someone would take that beautiful mountain and turn it into an eyesore. Secondly I can't understand why murderers can be so glorified. That is all that any armed forces are. Murderers. Next I can't understand why people are still so ignorant as to think the civil war was about slavery or racism. Then I can't understand why anyone would want to sweep history under the rug - which is almost always ugly, xenophobic pretense covering what in fact is division, ignorant nationalism, hate and greed. And finally I can't understand the radical left wing ideologues who insist most boisterously that everyone in the world think exactly like they do or suffer their wrath.

Take it down, I say! Put up a vulgar BLM and Antifa slogan. Next we'll take down the Holocaust memorials. Let's forget that as well.
I no longer post here

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Re: Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

Post #28

Post by Quantrill »

koko wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:08 pm
Funny that you accuse someone of hatred when you defend a traitor like Jefferson Davis who killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and while asserting this delusionalism: "Blacks are wanting to remake America in it's image. And image is all they can create. They are not able to create a civilization of their own. They have to take over one and try and make it their own. The problem is, as soon as it is their own, it turns into a cesspool." That's real hatred.
Again you avoid history. You accuse Davis of being a traitor and responsible of the deaths of those caused in the War. Yet you refuse to take up the trial of Jefferson Davis for being a traitor. You are big on PC speech. You are empty on history.

So, again, what about Jeff Davis trial as traitor and guilty of treason to the U.S.? How did it work out. It's there in history. And....you are a 'historian'. Arn't you?

I don't have a problem hating. Not at all. But then I don't make a pretense of not hating and labeling others as guilty of hate. You see? Probably not. You vent your hatred under the guise of being good because you hate those evil Southern white people. And that is accepted as the good thing by the PC crowd.

Quantrill

koko

Re: Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

Post #29

Post by koko »

Quantrill wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:08 pm

Again you avoid history. You accuse Davis of being a traitor and responsible of the deaths of those caused in the War. Yet you refuse to take up the trial of Jefferson Davis for being a traitor. You are big on PC speech. You are empty on history.

So, again, what about Jeff Davis trial as traitor and guilty of treason to the U.S.? How did it work out. It's there in history. And....you are a 'historian'. Arn't you?

I don't have a problem hating. Not at all. But then I don't make a pretense of not hating and labeling others as guilty of hate. You see? Probably not. You vent your hatred under the guise of being good because you hate those evil Southern white people. And that is accepted as the good thing by the PC crowd.

Quantrill

On the contrary, the limp wristed treatment of the southern traitors was political correctness at its very worse. The hanging tree for criminals like him, the firing squad for the likes of Robert E Lee. This would have ended the type of treasonous hate so many far right delusionals have inherited and practice today.

Thankfully, people are waking up to the proper solution to this problem of right wing hate, racism and treason - and that is to march fully armed like these patriots did when they marched against those same monuments you are defending:





Notice how the far right media ignored this truth. Note further that these patriots are NOT members of BLM. While the video has some objectionable content, it reveals a movement that will soon emerge all over the country as the patriotic majority has said it has had enough of the treason. Whether you like it or not, get used to it because this is the shape of things to come.

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Re: Should the Stone Mountain Confederate Memorial carving be removed?

Post #30

Post by Quantrill »

koko wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:27 am
On the contrary, the limp wristed treatment of the southern traitors was political correctness at its very worse. The hanging tree for criminals like him, the firing squad for the likes of Robert E Lee. This would have ended the type of treasonous hate so many far right delusionals have inherited and practice today.

Thankfully, people are waking up to the proper solution to this problem of right wing hate, racism and treason - and that is to march fully armed like these patriots did when they marched against those same monuments you are defending:




Notice how the far right media ignored this truth. Note further that these patriots are NOT members of BLM. While the video has some objectionable content, it reveals a movement that will soon emerge all over the country as the patriotic majority has said it has had enough of the treason. Whether you like it or not, get used to it because this is the shape of things to come.
Again you avoid my questions. Your inability and refusal to prove your claim of the South being traitor proves the very point that they were not. Your leaning only on PC speech and not history, proves the very point that they were not. The black movements, the Antifa movements, are all based on myth and hatred toward the Southern white people. BLM just means white lives don't matter. And you can see how it works as it tears down the North's statues also.

Oh I agree that this is the shape of things to come. How could it not be since the U.S. has been based upon lies and myths since 1865? I have always said this. It will lead to a break down of law and order in the country where militia groups will be the law and order.

What did the prosecutors tell president Johnson about taking Jeff Davis to trial? Do I have to do your history for you? How is the South traitor to the Constitution when they did not break the Constitution? Why don't you just admit you hate the Southern white people, and probably white people period, and don't care if the North was the traitor. All you care about is that the Southern white people were destroyed. Why can't blacks and liberals just be honest? Probably because they have been preaching these lies for so long, they even believe them.

History is against you.

Quantrill

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