How to talk with your Black friends about race

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How to talk with your Black friends about race

Post #1

Post by otseng »

CNN wrote: When #BlackLivesMatter trended in response to the deaths of Sandra Bland, Samuel DuBose and Jonathan Sanders, a weak link in one of my strongest friendships revealed itself.

I'm Black and one of my close friends in 2015 was White. As protests unfurled and people posted and debated online about the controversial, oft-polarizing movement, my friend tweeted, "Why on earth does someone have to apologize for saying 'all lives matter'?"

I knew the answer: The Black Lives Matter movement was started around police brutality and injustice against Black lives, which seemed to matter less to some police officers. The slogan means "Black lives matter, too." I worried that my friend didn't see that saying "all lives matter" without acknowledging the movement's purpose ignored the racism exemplified in police interactions that end badly.

I texted my friend to ask whether she wanted an answer to her question or if her query was rhetorical.

"I'm just saying I don't think it's fair; it's the only time I've ever said anything about politics so I don't really wanna get into it," she texted back.

Though I had thoughts to share, she refused to have a conversation because she thought it might come between us.

I was shocked, hurt and confused that she wouldn't talk with me. Here was a friend I'd spent many formative years with — we'd laughed, cried and grown together. We'd been there for each other when it came to school strains, friend dramas and hardships. But discussing race was a bridge we couldn't cross together.

Her refusal to talk to me did come between us. I had to continue forward into social tension alone — while she stayed behind on solid land, safe.

Don't refuse to talk about racism

By hesitating to talk with your Black friends about race because you're worried about upsetting the ease of the relationship, you're refusing the gift of growing through dialogue, said Jennifer Harvey, a professor of religion at Drake University in Iowa and author of "Raising White Kids: Bringing Up Children in a Racially Unjust America."

You're also asking Black people to carry a burden that is not their own — one of "White ignorance, complicity and silence in their lives," Harvey said. "I talked in my book about racial scripts that we're all living in this larger play that's been written for us and we've been handed the role."

"Authentic relationships can only be grown when we disrupt the script and find [justice-oriented] ways to move past those rules," she said.

When you refuse to have a hard conversation about racial injustice, you're telling your friends that you're not interested in their experiences as human beings. And you're also saying that you're willing to accept racism and let it sit between you as if it's not there.

Talking about race can be tough, especially in such emotionally charged times. But it's important because diversity goes beyond the surface level that is skin color. And while friendships can allow for joy and celebration, deeper relationships require connecting with people during their hardest experiences.

Here are a few tips for having those conversations.

Show that you care

Even if you're knowledgeable about racial issues, you might still have blind spots when it comes to understanding the experiences of and support needed by people of color, said Shadeen Francis, a licensed marriage and family therapist, professor and author who specializes in sex therapy and social justice.

If you feel solidarity with your Black friends, Francis added, be vulnerable and say you don't know how to support them — but that you want to let them know that you care, love them and are thinking of them.

Don't ask a bunch of pointed questions about how they're doing or request they explain their feelings. That kind of prodding can "feel invasive," Francis said, because "to experience racism is trauma."

"Even though everyone is impacted by racism, [that] is a person who represents power or privilege often asking or seeking information from the person who is grieving a traumatic experience."

With the frame of grief in mind, ask yourself how you would approach someone who is grieving, Francis said.

Make room for your friends to be able to express themselves if they have any hurt feelings or grievances with you that they've been wanting to share. And don't expect a response.

Listen empathically

If your friend is open to talking, it's important to listen without trying to invalidate his experiences, said Beverly Tatum, a psychologist, former Spelman College president and author of the classic books "Can We Talk About Race?" and "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?"

"Sometimes what happens when Black and White friends are talking and particularly when the Black person is talking about something that has happened — maybe a microaggression that has occurred or upset them — the White person's response is discomfort," Tatum said. And the discomfort can be even greater if your friend's upset is about something you did.

Avoid trying to minimize the situation by telling your friend her experience wasn't that bad or that she's being oversensitive. Don't blame her for or deny it. Validating her sounds like responding with, "That's hard. I wish that hadn't happened to you." Or, "What can I do to try to address it?"

Also keep from making the conversation about you instead of your friend's issues. If you start crying, your friend might feel that they're responsible for comforting you. Continuing to have these talks can help you build the stamina you need to be a better listener.

Tune into the emotions your friend is sharing, whether in words or body language. Prioritize understanding her feelings over the details of her story, regardless of whether you agree or your experience. When she's done speaking, reflect back what you heard and understood. Give her the opportunity to address anything that was potentially misinterpreted or filtered, Francis said.

Those questions include: "What I heard you say was that you felt discriminated against. Can I make sure I understood that correctly?" "Is what I'm thinking or feeling what you wanted me to take away from this?"

"While those are not necessarily organic ways for us to be in conversation with other people, that is actually part of the problem — we actually don't do a good job listening to one another," Francis said. "So we have so many misunderstandings or just superficial conversations where we really miss opportunities to connect more deeply. So these [questions] might be an invitation for us to learn how to go deeper with one another."

Be careful with apologies

When acknowledging how you might benefit from systemic racism although you didn't own enslaved people, it might feel natural to apologize to the Black people in your life. But though well-intentioned, apologies aren't particularly helpful, Francis said.

"An apology without action is empty," she explained. "So to apologize for [racism] that is not new ... and that you benefit from doesn't actually serve the goal of being supportive. Then it also feels like the other person's responsibility to somehow make that right by saying, 'It's fine.'"

You can't apologize on behalf of others, but you can apologize for any of your own specific faults of complicit racism if applicable.

Look within to determine why you want to apologize. If it's because you're feeling guilty, hurt or sad over current events, know that it's not your friend's job to process your emotions along with hers.

If it's to prioritize supporting him, that apology might sound like saying you're sorry because you either didn't know, were ignorant to, weren't paying attention to, weren't listening to or are just realizing the seriousness of racial issues. Then follow up with what you'll do differently.

Otherwise, "an acknowledgment of what you see happening is enough," she added.

Offer concrete help

Ask whether there is something you can do to help, or leave an offer on the table for something that you'd like to do, which they can accept if they want to.

You can also take it upon yourself to do the hard work needed to dismantle systemic racism, Francis suggested — that means doing your research, listening to the experiences of Black people, volunteering, exploring your known and unconscious biases and understanding how your racial identity influences your societal privilege.

"Ally is an active position," she said. "The conversation is the start, but [it's also] what allows us to get clear and be informed about what work needs to be done and how we can participate."

Pull signs from your fear

Most people don't learn a lot about how to support those who are grieving, so approaching the matter can feel really awkward.

If you and a Black friend are discussing race and her points become hard to hear, take a beat. Talking about race is only challenging because you don't have experience having the conversation.

Maybe there's more education or support you need in order to better show up for her.

"Just know that yeah, you might feel uncomfortable and you might say the wrong thing, but you can own that and learn from that moment and continue to move forward," Francis said.

We all have unique identities that inform our equally varied experiences in the world. By making space for all of them, we acquire greater knowledge, understanding and acceptance of all lived experiences and respect others' humanity.

"If we're unable to really make space for difference," Francis said, "we are doomed to continue to reproduce these hierarchical systems of oppression. If I can only see and make space for people who look like me, I maintain a system of othering in which people do not get to be seen.

"And silencing is a huge piece of oppression — if I can't see you, if I can't learn about or understand you, then I have no way of preventing my capacity to do you harm."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/health/h ... index.html

(Note: this post does not necessarily represent any views of any posters on this forum, but is posted to provide one person's perspective.)

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Re: How to talk with your Black friends about race

Post #2

Post by Quantrill »

So, this is you instructing white people how to talk to black people about race.

Were you expecting feedback from this thread?

Brings to light many questions. Why do white people need to be instructed how to talk to black people about race? Why don't black people need to be instructed how to talk to white people about race? The answer is, of course, you see white people only as racist's.

You're black as you say. And your black racism is showing. This is all about getting whites to admit their supposed 'guilt' and bow to the negro.

That is a hard saying, but you said you're willing to discuss hard things concerning racism. Are you?

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Re: How to talk with your Black friends about race

Post #3

Post by historia »

Quantrill wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:25 pm
So, this is you instructing white people how to talk to black people about race.
No, this is osteng quoting Kristen Rogers.

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Re: How to talk with your Black friends about race

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historia wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:34 pm
Quantrill wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:25 pm
So, this is you instructing white people how to talk to black people about race.
No, this is osteng quoting Kristen Rogers.
And why did he quote it?

See? Herein is the problem of giving a link and then not standing up to support it. Why else would he give it?

Do you know osteng's mind in all that he does so that you can answer for him or for the link?

People only want to talk about race when it is going towards their conclusion. They support discussion about race when it goes towards their conclusion. When it goes otherwise....well, you know.

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Re: How to talk with your Black friends about race

Post #5

Post by otseng »

Quantrill wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:34 pm And why did he quote it?
It's in the bottom of the OP ...
"(Note: this post does not necessarily represent any views of any posters on this forum, but is posted to provide one person's perspective.)"
Quantrill wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:25 pm You're black as you say. And your black racism is showing. This is all about getting whites to admit their supposed 'guilt' and bow to the negro.
What are you talking about? Where did I say I'm black and where did I show black racism? Please substantiate your claims instead of making erroneous statements about me.

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Re: How to talk with your Black friends about race

Post #6

Post by Quantrill »

otseng wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:17 pm

It's in the bottom of the OP ...
"(Note: this post does not necessarily represent any views of any posters on this forum, but is posted to provide one person's perspective.)"

What are you talking about? Where did I say I'm black and where did I show black racism? Please substantiate your claims instead of making erroneous statements about me.
Yes, but I said this is you. In other words you posted it. I don't believe you are being honest if you say it doesn't express your views.

As to it being black racism, of course it is. It is about teaching whites how they should talk to blacks. The whole point is that the whites are mistaken about BLM. And whites are needing to apologize for racism. And the blacks are just misunderstood.

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Re: How to talk with your Black friends about race

Post #7

Post by otseng »

Quantrill wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:52 am Yes, but I said this is you. In other words you posted it. I don't believe you are being honest if you say it doesn't express your views.
This reveals several problems in the entire discussion about race.

First, what one person says needs to be understood in the proper context. When I quote something, it does not mean I'm saying it. There was clearly a link to the source at the beginning of the quote and at the end. By not understanding the context, wrong conclusions will be made.

Second, you cannot second guess what another person says. Though I stated "this post does not necessarily represent any views of any posters on this forum", you cannot then claim I said that dishonestly unless you can actually back up that claim.

In this debate on racism, I believe many sides are blinded by their preconceived notions, mistrust, and not seeking to truly understand another's position. It is easy to cherry pick and then come up with false conclusions. We are prone to only enforcing our own biases and stereotypes and not seeking to understand another's position.

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Re: How to talk with your Black friends about race

Post #8

Post by Quantrill »

otseng wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:13 am
This reveals several problems in the entire discussion about race.

First, what one person says needs to be understood in the proper context. When I quote something, it does not mean I'm saying it. There was clearly a link to the source at the beginning of the quote and at the end. By not understanding the context, wrong conclusions will be made.

Second, you cannot second guess what another person says. Though I stated "this post does not necessarily represent any views of any posters on this forum", you cannot then claim I said that dishonestly unless you can actually back up that claim.

In this debate on racism, I believe many sides are blinded by their preconceived notions, mistrust, and not seeking to truly understand another's position. It is easy to cherry pick and then come up with false conclusions. We are prone to only enforcing our own biases and stereotypes and not seeking to understand another's position.
Yes, but the 'conclusion' that you and others are after is all important. What is the goal of talking about 'racism'? What is your goal?

You act as if you had no reason or motive to post the article. That you don't agree or disagree with it one way or another. It is just a subject to discuss. I find that hard to believe.

In other words, what if I posted an article on race and how it divides, and it is not wrong that it divides, but made sure that everyone understands these are not my views. And in the article it is the blacks that need to understand how to speak to whites. But again, it is just for discussion. Would you believe me?

For example, I have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that Jeff Davis was not a traitor, and thus the Southern white people were not traitor to the U.S. I have proven it by the very words of the Northern Prosecuting lawyers. Has any on this forum acknowledged this? No, of course not. Will blacks ever acknowledge it? Of course not.

So, my point is, if one is unwilling to acknowledge a truth in history because it doesn't fit their ends, then neither are they going to be honest about any discussion on racism that doesn't fit their ends.

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Re: How to talk with your Black friends about race

Post #9

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Quantrill wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:52 am What is the goal of talking about 'racism'? What is your goal?
My goal is modest - simply to have a platform that is open to all sides to discuss the issue without the vitriol.

I've been trying to gather different positions on the issue and have been posting them here. Some is a result of me asking them personally, some just what I come across.
You act as if you had no reason or motive to post the article. That you don't agree or disagree with it one way or another. It is just a subject to discuss. I find that hard to believe.
I do have my own personal opinions on the matter of racism. If I explicitly state it (which I have on occasion), then you're free to comment on it. Otherwise, guessing what I believe is pointless.
And in the article it is the blacks that need to understand how to speak to whites. But again, it is just for discussion. Would you believe me?
Depends on what other articles you have also posted. If it's only from one side, then it suggests you have an agenda. Myself, I have attempted to be balanced on the third party articles that I've posted (though it does lean towards a Christian POV).
For example, I have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that Jeff Davis was not a traitor, and thus the Southern white people were not traitor to the U.S. I have proven it by the very words of the Northern Prosecuting lawyers. Has any on this forum acknowledged this? No, of course not. Will blacks ever acknowledge it? Of course not.
This would be a good topic, which you are free to raise as a debate topic.
So, my point is, if one is unwilling to acknowledge a truth in history because it doesn't fit their ends, then neither are they going to be honest about any discussion on racism that doesn't fit their ends.
It is not your job to convince others to acknowledge a truth. It is only your job to present your argument and evidence. Then it's others job to decide whether to accept it or not.

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Re: How to talk with your Black friends about race

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Post by Quantrill »

otseng wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:56 pm
My goal is modest - simply to have a platform that is open to all sides to discuss the issue without the vitriol.

I've been trying to gather different positions on the issue and have been posting them here. Some is a result of me asking them personally, some just what I come across.

I do have my own personal opinions on the matter of racism. If I explicitly state it (which I have on occasion), then you're free to comment on it. Otherwise, guessing what I believe is pointless.

Depends on what other articles you have also posted. If it's only from one side, then it suggests you have an agenda. Myself, I have attempted to be balanced on the third party articles that I've posted (though it does lean towards a Christian POV).

This would be a good topic, which you are free to raise as a debate topic.

It is not your job to convince others to acknowledge a truth. It is only your job to present your argument and evidence. Then it's others job to decide whether to accept it or not.
Again, I don't believe your goal is modest. I have to say it again as you keep claiming you don't have an opinion either way. You have a conclusion that you're going for. You have an agenda. And this is why you post the things you do concerning racism. But when confronted, you deny it. All of which means if any offer anything opposed to your agenda, they will be met with warnings, and being banned.

Why keep anyone guessing? Why not admit what your agenda is? If your agenda cannot be supported, maybe it needs to be rejected.

See? You wouldn't believe me if I said the article I post is just for discussion and I don't really support it. Which is why I don't believe you when you say the article doesn't represent anyone on the forum. It represents you. That is why you posted it.

It has been discussed already...that is the point. So, what do you say? The North's trial prosecutors said Jeff Davis was not traitor. Are you unwilling, like everyone else is, to agree. Of course you won't agree. It doesn't serve your conclusion. It doesn't serve the whites bowing down to the blacks and apologizing. Whites must learn how to talk to blacks.

Your last statement is full of bull. If I present the truth, supported by factual testimony, then it is the responsibility of others to accept that truth. You either accept it or try and discredit it. If others simply reject it because it doesn't meet their end game, then that needs to be exposed. And that is what is going on here with 'race'.

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