Black lives matter TOO

Debate and discussion on racism and related issues

Moderator: Moderators

benchwarmer
Guru
Posts: 2104
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:40 am
Has thanked: 1362 times
Been thanked: 518 times

Black lives matter TOO

Post #1

Post by benchwarmer »

Question: Does anyone else share the opinion that there would be a lot less fuss over "Black Lives Matter" vs "All Lives Matter" if the original slogan was simply "Black Lives Matter Too!".

It's just a single extra word, but I think it both highlights the real problem (that skin color shouldn't determine worth and some people with black skin color are being unfairly treated) and at the same time does not exclude others. I think some rightly bristle at the shortened version as it seems to put all the focus on one group. It brings to mind the question about whether brown, white, etc. lives matter as well.

I honestly wish that we would stop focusing on skin color and start focusing on humans. No human should be unfairly treated. Those who treat others differently because they have a different skin/hair/eye/whatever color, speak a different language, have a different religion, etc are the actual problem. My opinion is this problem is almost entirely driven by education or lack thereof. I think those without a broad education and understanding of the entire world around them naturally focus on the small group around them and can't see that we are all just humans.

Deeogee
Student
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:15 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #11

Post by Deeogee »

Blue Lives Matter

Babies Lives Matter


These two covers all colors.
You purified your souls in obeying the truth...being born again. (1Peter 1:22,23)

User avatar
bluegreenearth
Guru
Posts: 1878
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:06 pm
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
Has thanked: 653 times
Been thanked: 462 times

Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #12

Post by bluegreenearth »

[Replying to benchwarmer in post #1]

The source behind these divisive messages that have perverted the diversity and inclusion movement is something called "Critical Race Theory." It used to be an obscure academic idea with an understandable objective of identifying where problems with racism persist in our society. However, it has a terrible side-effect of creating more problems than it hopes to solve. You can read more about it at the following link: https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/reaso ... ng-racism/

User avatar
Mithrae
Prodigy
Posts: 4268
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:33 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 169 times

Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #13

Post by Mithrae »

Elijah John wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:37 am Kindly support the notion that racism is "institutional" in either the USA or the UK.
Regarding a slightly different question - systemic racism rather than 'institutional' - I offered the following to a person on another forum:
  • One thing [my earlier sceptical post] doesn't cover are disparities in economic mobility. If black people's lower employment rates, lower income, worse health outcomes etc. etc. etc. were all part of a vicious cycle hinging on perhaps a couple of main catalysts (eg. poor early education in a district-based school system), then surely we'd expect to see something similar regarding poor white people? But that's not the case, as one of the charts in SoCal's article shows; even poor white people end up being more financially successful on average than poor black people. Okay, but in the case of upward mobility maybe that difference is due to the different life circumstances which poor white and black people face on average, some kind of ghetto effect as it were.

    What's really got me thinking that systemic 'racism' might actually be an appropriate description for all of these disparities is the vast gap in downward economic mobility. On average, if your family is relatively wealthy you've got a lot of things going for you: Better education, better role models, more stability, better contacts and networking opportunities. Kids born into the wealthiest 20% of society are much more likely to remain in that upper quintile. Unless they're black.
    "White children whose parents are in the top fifth of the income distribution have a 41.1 percent chance of staying there as adults; for Hispanic children, the rate is 30.6 percent, and for Asian-American children, 49.9 percent. But for black children, it’s only 18 percent, and for American Indian children only 23 percent."
    That's not a small gap. Poor early education or welfare dependency obviously cannot explain that discrepancy. Staggeringly, black children in well-off households have a worse than random chance of remaining in the upper quintile as adults; not only does their privileged background seem to offer little real advantage (as it does for white and Asian children, and to a lesser extent even Hispanic children) but it looks as though there is some kind of widespread active impediment to black families even remaining well-off from generation to generation.

    How would you explain this data?

koko

Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #14

Post by koko »

Bust Nak wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:33 am
Elijah John wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:37 am Kindly support the notion that racism is "institutional" in either the USA or the UK.
Before I go dig up some numbers, would disproportionate stop and search count as institutional racism? I ask because the following...
Cite the laws which discriminate against people because of their skin color. As far as I know, discrimination against anyone because of their race is illegal in both the US and the UK.
... suggest that you think it only counts when the law itself discriminates.


Yes it does. Do those strip searches in the white suburbs (especially to white women) and see if society doesn't put an immediate stop to it.

User avatar
AgnosticBoy
Guru
Posts: 1339
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:44 pm
Has thanked: 149 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #15

Post by AgnosticBoy »

[Replying to koko in post #14]

I don't think the color of the community matters but rather the class and crime rate. Blacks are stopped and searched more if they are in areas of high crime, and unfortunately there are a lot of high crime areas in Black communities.

koko

Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #16

Post by koko »

White supremacists caused violence under guise as BLM in Richmond:


https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/2020 ... es-matter/

https://www.nbc12.com/2020/07/25/protes ... -set-fire/



"Mayor Stoney said there were reports of white supremacists in the crowds who incited the violence.

“There were white supremacists marching under the banner of Black Lives Matter, an attempt to undermine an otherwise overwhelmingly peaceful movement toward social justice.”





Note how BLM was PRAISED for stopping violence caused by white supremacists there.

koko

Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #17

Post by koko »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:36 am [Replying to koko in post #14]

I don't think the color of the community matters but rather the class and crime rate. Blacks are stopped and searched more if they are in areas of high crime, and unfortunately there are a lot of high crime areas in Black communities.


They get stopped everywhere, even in downtown business areas. I've seen it happen and this has been pointed out and documented enough times.

Elijah John
Savant
Posts: 12235
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #18

Post by Elijah John »

koko wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:28 pm
Bust Nak wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:33 am
Elijah John wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:37 am Kindly support the notion that racism is "institutional" in either the USA or the UK.
Before I go dig up some numbers, would disproportionate stop and search count as institutional racism? I ask because the following...
Cite the laws which discriminate against people because of their skin color. As far as I know, discrimination against anyone because of their race is illegal in both the US and the UK.
... suggest that you think it only counts when the law itself discriminates.


Yes it does. Do those strip searches in the white suburbs (especially to white women) and see if society doesn't put an immediate stop to it.
Profiling may be fair game, given the fact that blacks commit disproportionate violent crime relative to their population.
Also, what "strip searches" are you talking about? Frisking should not be conflated with strip searches.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

koko

Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #19

Post by koko »

Elijah John wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:24 pm
Profiling may be fair game, given the fact that blacks commit disproportionate violent crime relative to their population.
Also, what "strip searches" are you talking about? Frisking should not be conflated with strip searches.




There isn't much online data on racial profiling and disproportionate strip searches based on race/ethniticy but here is something:


https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/vi ... ntext=mjrl


As always, police engage in this stupidity far more often on minorities. Again, minorities do not commit the majority of crimes in society, whites do. It's just that the cops gleefully abuse the law more when a minority is involved in an alleged crime.

koko

Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #20

Post by koko »

Her name was Jessica Whitaker and she was, in effect, killed for saying "all lives matter". Whether she was the target or someone else in her group is unclear.

Woman Was Not Murdered "for Being White"


https://misbar.com/en/factcheck/2020/07 ... eing-white


The Claim
An Indiana woman was murdered for being white.


Emerging story
In mid-July 2020, users on social media circulated an image claiming that Jessica Whittaker was shot “for being white” and “for saying all lives matter.”









Misbar’s Analysis
Misbar’s investigation found that Jessica Doty Whitaker was killed, but it is misleading to say it was for being white.

Whitaker and a few friends were walking down Downtown Canal Ave and Martin Luther King Jr. Street at 3 AM early July 5, 2020. Whitaker's fiance, Jose Ramirez, stated that they confronted Black Lives Matter protesters. After an argument, one of the protestors and Ramirez pulled out guns. Ramirez said that he and the people involved in the armed standoff settled their differences and parted ways. Shortly thereafter, Whitaker was shot.

Ramirez said that he blindly fired back, but reported to police that he only fired aimlessly towards the direction that he heard the gunshots come from. He stated that he “didn't see nobody” and hoped “he didn’t hit nobody.” He also said that Whitaker had just said “all lives matter” only moments before. “All lives matter” is a slogan sometimes used in opposition to the popular civil rights protester’s moniker “Black lives matter.”

However, Amit Sharma with the Courier Dailey reports that “someone among them” also “used a slang version of the N-word” before the confrontation took place.

Because no suspect has been named or otherwise identified, there is no way to establish what their motive might have been.



Without a suspect, it is impossible to ascertain if or if the target was Whitaker or Ramirez, who stated that moments before he had engaged in an armed standoff.



Furthermore, no proof BLM had anything to do with this matter. I could just as easily say the Republican party is responsibile for this unfortuntate act (of course, I won't for now).

Post Reply