Black lives matter TOO

Debate and discussion on racism and related issues

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benchwarmer
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Black lives matter TOO

Post #1

Post by benchwarmer »

Question: Does anyone else share the opinion that there would be a lot less fuss over "Black Lives Matter" vs "All Lives Matter" if the original slogan was simply "Black Lives Matter Too!".

It's just a single extra word, but I think it both highlights the real problem (that skin color shouldn't determine worth and some people with black skin color are being unfairly treated) and at the same time does not exclude others. I think some rightly bristle at the shortened version as it seems to put all the focus on one group. It brings to mind the question about whether brown, white, etc. lives matter as well.

I honestly wish that we would stop focusing on skin color and start focusing on humans. No human should be unfairly treated. Those who treat others differently because they have a different skin/hair/eye/whatever color, speak a different language, have a different religion, etc are the actual problem. My opinion is this problem is almost entirely driven by education or lack thereof. I think those without a broad education and understanding of the entire world around them naturally focus on the small group around them and can't see that we are all just humans.

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Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #2

Post by Elijah John »

benchwarmer wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:31 am Question: Does anyone else share the opinion that there would be a lot less fuss over "Black Lives Matter" vs "All Lives Matter" if the original slogan was simply "Black Lives Matter Too!".

It's just a single extra word, but I think it both highlights the real problem (that skin color shouldn't determine worth and some people with black skin color are being unfairly treated) and at the same time does not exclude others. I think some rightly bristle at the shortened version as it seems to put all the focus on one group. It brings to mind the question about whether brown, white, etc. lives matter as well.

I honestly wish that we would stop focusing on skin color and start focusing on humans. No human should be unfairly treated. Those who treat others differently because they have a different skin/hair/eye/whatever color, speak a different language, have a different religion, etc are the actual problem. My opinion is this problem is almost entirely driven by education or lack thereof. I think those without a broad education and understanding of the entire world around them naturally focus on the small group around them and can't see that we are all just humans.
I share your opinion. I was thinking the same thing. That one little word would make a difference. I like to say that "black people matter too". I refuse to allow the BLM organization tell me what to say or tell me how to say it, or tell me what to think. I don't need the intimidation of the BLM movement to teach me that black people matter too. I knew it all along. I think that most people do too.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
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I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #3

Post by Quantrill »

It is my opinion that the word 'only' should be added to BLM as it would depict the truth of the phrase. 'Only Black Lives Matter'.

I see a white woman in Indiana, a mother of one, was killed by BLM supporters after a verbal exchange. I see where BLM leader in New York says BLM will burn the system down if it doesn't get what it wants.

If you think BLM is concerned over anyone else, you are mistaken.

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Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #4

Post by Bust Nak »

Save the whales doesn't need an "and other marine mammals too" disclaimer. Neither does black lives matter. It's a tactic employed by some to steer the conversation away from the central issue; AKA controlling the conversation. When you are debating whether other lives matters, you are not talking about institutional racism.

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Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #5

Post by Elijah John »

Bust Nak wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:48 am Save the whales doesn't need an "and other marine mammals too" disclaimer. Neither does black lives matter. It's a tactic employed by some to steer the conversation away from the central issue; AKA controlling the conversation. When you are debating whether other lives matters, you are not talking about institutional racism.
Kindly support the notion that racism is "institutional" in either the USA or the UK. Cite the laws which discriminate against people because of their skin color. As far as I know, discrimination against anyone because of their race is illegal in both the US and the UK.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Elijah John
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Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #6

Post by Elijah John »

Quantrill wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:06 am It is my opinion that the word 'only' should be added to BLM as it would depict the truth of the phrase. 'Only Black Lives Matter'.

I see a white woman in Indiana, a mother of one, was killed by BLM supporters after a verbal exchange. I see where BLM leader in New York says BLM will burn the system down if it doesn't get what it wants.
Her name was Jessica Whitaker and she was, in effect, killed for saying "all lives matter". Whether she was the target or someone else in her group is unclear. Either way, I have never heard BLM condemn violence done in it's name (and there are many more examples) . If they have condemned violence done in their name, I missed it. So it seems likely that they do not denounce the violence committed by their supporters loudly enough, or often enough.

Also, the BLM leader who wants to "burn the system down" is Hawk Newsome, a New York BLM leader. He added that he will leave it up to others to decide if he is speaking literally or not. If he cared about inciting actual arson, he would clarify that he was not speaking literally. But he made no such clarification.

If BLM is truly a civil rights group and not a bunch of violent radicals, wouldn't they condemn violence done in it's name? Wouldn't they use rational persuasion instead of intimidation?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #7

Post by Bust Nak »

Elijah John wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:37 am Kindly support the notion that racism is "institutional" in either the USA or the UK.
Before I go dig up some numbers, would disproportionate stop and search count as institutional racism? I ask because the following...
Cite the laws which discriminate against people because of their skin color. As far as I know, discrimination against anyone because of their race is illegal in both the US and the UK.
... suggest that you think it only counts when the law itself discriminates.

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Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #8

Post by Elijah John »

Bust Nak wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:33 am
Elijah John wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:37 am Kindly support the notion that racism is "institutional" in either the USA or the UK.
Before I go dig up some numbers, would disproportionate stop and search count as institutional racism? I ask because the following...
Cite the laws which discriminate against people because of their skin color. As far as I know, discrimination against anyone because of their race is illegal in both the US and the UK.
... suggest that you think it only counts when the law itself discriminates.
So you cannot point to any such law that legalizes discrimination. If anyone feels themselves the victim of discrimination, there are legal remedies. And it should end there, not in mob violence. As they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

And if you want to go beyond the legal, you are delving into peoples hearts. And those hearts are not changed by rioting, resisting arrest, assualts against police, escalation, looting, bullying, cancel-culture, name-calling, boycotts, scholastic indoctrination, attempting to destroy American history, arson, vandalism, murder and violence. Hearts are changed though persuasion not intimidation. Hearts are changed by making your case, not though mob violence or endless protests. Those who rely on such tactics risk major backlash come election day. Those who rely on such tactics are not winning any friends, nor are they doing justice to their purported cause.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Quantrill
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Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #9

Post by Quantrill »

Elijah John wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:02 am
Her name was Jessica Whitaker and she was, in effect, killed for saying "all lives matter". Whether she was the target or someone else in her group is unclear. Either way, I have never heard BLM condemn violence done in it's name (and there are many more examples) . If they have condemned violence done in their name, I missed it. So it seems likely that they do not denounce the violence committed by their supporters loudly enough, or often enough.

Also, the BLM leader who wants to "burn the system down" is Hawk Newsome, a New York BLM leader. He added that he will leave it up to others to decide if he is speaking literally or not. If he cared about inciting actual arson, he would clarify that he was not speaking literally. But he made no such clarification.

If BLM is truly a civil rights group and not a bunch of violent radicals, wouldn't they condemn violence done in it's name? Wouldn't they use rational persuasion instead of intimidation?
You won't see any outrage among BLM or blacks over any white woman or man killed by BLM or blacks. You won't hear the NAACP call this an outrage or murder. You won't hear the SPLC call for hate crime investigation. You won't hear Obama stand up and say this is wrong. In fact, Obama just a few days ago encouraged BLM to keep up the pressure. Well they did. A white girl is dead. So be it. She probably had it coming since she was white. She was probably a descendant of slave owners. Obama should be proud.

And don't send any white police officers to investigate. Because, we know they are just looking to lynch someone.

BLM stands for 'Only Black Lives Matter'. Or, 'White Lives Don't Matter'. Just like the NAACP does.

But keep tearing down them Confederate monuments and Confederate flags. That's what's important.

Quantrill

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Re: Black lives matter TOO

Post #10

Post by Bust Nak »

Elijah John wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:53 pm So you cannot point to any such law that legalizes discrimination. If anyone feels themselves the victim of discrimination, there are legal remedies.
What about policies that are legal but negatively affects PoC disproportionally? Zoning laws had an element of enforcing racial segregation in its inception, and is still in effect today for example?
And it should end there, not in mob violence. As they say, two wrongs don't make a right.
It should end there, but what happens when the legal remedies fails them?
And if you want to go beyond the legal, you are delving into peoples hearts. And those hearts are not changed by rioting, resisting arrest, assualts against police, escalation, looting, bullying, cancel-culture, name-calling, boycotts, scholastic indoctrination, attempting to destroy American history, arson, vandalism, murder and violence. Hearts are changed though persuasion not intimidation. Hearts are changed by making your case, not though mob violence or endless protests. Those who rely on such tactics risk major backlash come election day. Those who rely on such tactics are not winning any friends, nor are they doing justice to their purported cause.
Why not both? A lot of non-racists were apathetic before the rioting, now they match with BLM, so some minds are changed.

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