Witch words

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Elijah John
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Witch words

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

In the 17th century, people who wished to discredit people they didn't like denounced them as "witch".

In the 1950's the the "witch word" was "communist".

Is the word "racist" this century's "witch" word? It seems all it takes in this day and age to discredit someone is to denounce them as "racist". Whether the charge is true or not, or is simply opinion is beside the point. Once the charge is leveled often times the damage is already done, lives are ruined, careers destroyed.

For debate,

Is the charge "racist"! being overused today? Are some innocent people being hurt by false charges of racism being leveled against them?

And does falsely accusing someone of being "racist" dilute the word, and detract from the very real struggle for actual racial justice?
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Re: Witch words

Post #2

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Elijah John wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 pm
For debate,

Is the charge "racist"! being overused today?
It is certainly overused but I'm more interested in why. Some use it to control speech and there is a good and bad to that. On the good side, it is used to prevent people from making hateful speech about a group of people on the basis of race alone. The bad side of controlling speech is that it is used to silence opposition, like pointing out when the Black community or an individual is in the wrong. For instance, a lot of Blacks and liberals may not want to admit that the black suspect shot in Atlanta by police was a justified shooting. So instead of arguing the case based on facts they just bring up the race card to try to silence anyone who would oppose their views.
Elijah John wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 pm Are some innocent people being hurt by false charges of racism being leveled against them?
Most definitely but I also hope those that are hurt by it have taken legal action to stop the slander.
Elijah John wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 pm And does falsely accusing someone of being "racist" dilute the word, and detract from the very real struggle for actual racial justice?
It does. In fact, I wish there were more accepted classifications like racial stereotypes. I say this because you can have someone who holds racial stereotypes without them hating the race.

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Difflugia
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Re: Witch words

Post #3

Post by Difflugia »

Elijah John wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 pmIs the charge "racist"! being overused today?
No. If anything, it's underused.
Elijah John wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 pmAre some innocent people being hurt by false charges of racism being leveled against them?
Probably, and it's certaintly unfortunate, but nine racists and a bystander together sometimes look an awful lot like ten racists. The problem is that there were so many racists in the first place.
Elijah John wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 pmAnd does falsely accusing someone of being "racist" dilute the word,
I suppose it could. False positives always dilute a word's effectiveness. On the other hand, racists crying crocodile tears over being called racist rather dilutes the emotional impact of collateral damage.
Elijah John wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 pmand detract from the very real struggle for actual racial justice?
I think right now, any false positives are massively overwhelmed by the number of racists that are still not being called out on their racism. If that starts to change, maybe it will be time for a bit of reflection. Right now, though, it's a pretty safe bet that ten people with MAGA hats are ten racists. It's possible that one of them just grabbed the wrong hat, but even then most people that are genuinely not racist will understand why things looked the way they did. Anyone in that situation making a big deal out of being mistaken for someone that meant to put a MAGA hat on (or worse yet, claiming that the hat itself is somehow not racist) is probably trying to gaslight the rest of us.

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Re: Witch words

Post #4

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Difflugia wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:03 am

I think right now, any false positives are massively overwhelmed by the number of racists that are still not being called out on their racism. If that starts to change, maybe it will be time for a bit of reflection. Right now, though, it's a pretty safe bet that ten people with MAGA hats are ten racists. It's possible that one of them just grabbed the wrong hat, but even then most people that are genuinely not racist will understand why things looked the way they did. Anyone in that situation making a big deal out of being mistaken for someone that meant to put a MAGA hat on (or worse yet, claiming that the hat itself is somehow not racist) is probably trying to gaslight the rest of us.
Is that a blanket statement you're making there?

Is this group of black people racist? They all have the MAGA hat on.

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Re: Witch words

Post #5

Post by DavidLeon »

Difflugia wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:03 amI think right now, any false positives are massively overwhelmed by the number of racists that are still not being called out on their racism. If that starts to change, maybe it will be time for a bit of reflection. Right now, though, it's a pretty safe bet that ten people with MAGA hats are ten racists. It's possible that one of them just grabbed the wrong hat, but even then most people that are genuinely not racist will understand why things looked the way they did. Anyone in that situation making a big deal out of being mistaken for someone that meant to put a MAGA hat on (or worse yet, claiming that the hat itself is somehow not racist) is probably trying to gaslight the rest of us.
How in the world did we get to the place where wearing a hat makes you a racist?
AgnosticBoy wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:20 amIs that a blanket statement you're making there?

Is this group of black people racist? They all have the MAGA hat on.
Black people are racist as well as anyone else.
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Re: Witch words

Post #6

Post by Difflugia »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:20 amIs this group of black people racist? They all have the MAGA hat on.
It depends on particular definitions of "racist," but one can both be oppressed and participating in the system of oppression.

Whether or not they're technically racist, they are encouraging a system that supports the systematic disempowerment of non-white minorities.

However, if the people in the picture are the ones that the OP is referring to as the innocent people being falsely charged with racism, then I misunderstood its intent.
DavidLeon wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:43 amHow in the world did we get to the place where wearing a hat makes you a racist?
Do you mean that hat or any hat? As long as wearing a Klan hood is both an indicator of racism and a racist act in itself, then we've been at a place where "wearing a hat makes you racist" for a hundred years or so.

If you mean MAGA hats in particular, then all it takes is to acknowledge that the Trump administration engages in racist rhetoric and actively encourages racist policies. Supporting a racist administration is racist.
DavidLeon wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:43 amBlack people are racist as well as anyone else.
As long as the definition of racism doesn't involve any relationship with systemic biases or abuses and simply refers to individual attitudes, then that could be true. Few sociologists use the word "racist" that way, though.

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Re: Witch words

Post #7

Post by AgnosticBoy »

Difflugia wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:45 am It depends on particular definitions of "racist," but one can both be oppressed and participating in the system of oppression
Do you know what Make America Great Again refers to? To Trump supporters it means putting America first. You claim that the Blacks with maga hats are just oppressed siding with their oppressors? That's YOUR own subjective meaning and your statement or view is RACIST. It's a very intolerant and bigotted view.

WELFARE which many liberals support are what tends to keep Blacks suppressed.
Last edited by AgnosticBoy on Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Witch words

Post #8

Post by bjs1 »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:57 pm
Elijah John wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 pm Are some innocent people being hurt by false charges of racism being leveled against them?
Most definitely but I also hope those that are hurt by it have taken legal action to stop the slander.
I just want to say that there is no legal recourse here. Calling someone a “racists” is considered an opinion, sort of like calling someone a “jerk.” You can’t sue someone for having a negative opinion of you.
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Re: Witch words

Post #9

Post by DavidLeon »

Difflugia wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:45 am
DavidLeon wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:43 amHow in the world did we get to the place where wearing a hat makes you a racist?
Do you mean that hat or any hat? As long as wearing a Klan hood is both an indicator of racism and a racist act in itself, then we've been at a place where "wearing a hat makes you racist" for a hundred years or so.

If you mean MAGA hats in particular, then all it takes is to acknowledge that the Trump administration engages in racist rhetoric and actively encourages racist policies. Supporting a racist administration is racist.
Keeping in mind that I'm apolitical and really don't care about this nonsense, and so am not looking for a lengthy debate, support the claim that the Trump administration engages in racist rhetoric and actively encourages racist policies.
Difflugia wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:45 am
DavidLeon wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:43 amBlack people are racist as well as anyone else.
As long as the definition of racism doesn't involve any relationship with systemic biases or abuses and simply refers to individual attitudes, then that could be true. Few sociologists use the word "racist" that way, though.
Well, you know I don't care what words sociologist use, people are racists. All people. Using racism for political reasons is pretty messed up and apparently the radical left don't realize its hurting them really bad. People are tired of crazies in the street and media trying to shame them into thinking like the crazies think they ought to think.

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Re: Witch words

Post #10

Post by Bust Nak »

Difflugia wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:03 am it's a pretty safe bet that ten people with MAGA hats are ten racists.
:warning: Moderator Warning

This is needlessly inflammatory, presumably some posters here owns MAGA hats, you are in effect calling them racists.

Please review our Rules.

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