Black Lives Matter and Violence

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We_Are_VENOM
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Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #1

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

This thread is an offshoot of AgnosticBoy's thread "Is Black Lives Matter Complicit in Violence"?

To answer this question, I am reminded of an interview of the great Malcolm X. Malcolm X, who was a prominent figure in the Nation of Islam in the early 60's, was asked a similar question by an interviewer on some news segment.

The question was asked of Malcolm: "..one of the most pervasive beliefs about the Nation of Islam is that it dedicated to the use of violence means to attain their goals. Do you think this is true? And if so, why does it persist in society?"

and Malcolm ingeniously responds: "....we (NOI) never initiates any violence upon anyone, but if anyone attacks us we reserve our right to defend ourselves. So to accuse us of being violent is like accusing a man of being lynched of being violent just because he struggles vigorously with his lyncher; the victim is accused of violence, but the lyncher is never accused of violence."

Blacks, in the United States of America, feel as if we (I am black) have been oppressed in every way imaginable since we were brought here on slaves ships some 400 years ago, and we continue to be oppressed to this day. And once that anger boils over, we act aggressively towards our oppressors...but when we act aggressive towards them, we are accused of being "violent"....and only in a unjust, racist world does the oppressed get called "violent" for lashing out against our oppressors, but the oppressors almost never gets looked at as "violent" and gets to play the "victims".

Or in the case of Colin Kaepernik, he received so much hell for kneeling for the national anthem, mostly from non-blacks...but if anyone noticed, those that were critical of him were more critical of him for kneeling, than they were for WHY he was kneeling in the first place!!!

If they used all of their energy and resentment towards him, and placed it on his cause instead, the world would be a much better place.

However, in recent times, I can say that I am pleased at seeing my white counterparts march with us and stand against racial inequality. We are moving in the right direction.
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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #2

Post by Elijah John »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:47 pm This thread is an offshoot of AgnosticBoy's thread "Is Black Lives Matter Complicit in Violence"?

Blacks, in the United States of America, feel as if we (I am black) have been oppressed in every way imaginable since we were brought here on slaves ships some 400 years ago, and we continue to be oppressed to this day. And once that anger boils over, we act aggressively towards our oppressors...but when we act aggressive towards them, we are accused of being "violent"....and only in a unjust, racist world does the oppressed get called "violent" for lashing out against our oppressors, but the oppressors almost never gets looked at as "violent" and gets to play the "victims".
"Lashing out" as you say, is often violent. And it is often far disproportionate to any real or imagined "oppression".

Are store owners and their employees, many of whom are black, your oppressors? Do they deserve to be looted? Is looting, as one BLM Chicago leader said, a form of "reparations"?

Are the sick children and their parents at the Ronald McDonald house in Chicago your oppressors?

Do you, and/or BLM denounce the looting, shooting, arson, murder etc committed in the name of racial justice and BLM?

Are Barrack and Michelle Obama, Beyonce, Kanye, Larry Elder and Leo Terrell "oppressed"?

Would MLK (or even Malcom X after his life changing Hajj) approve of the tactics of today's racial justice protestors? rioters or looters?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

koko

Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #3

Post by koko »

@Venom


When you say "complicit", do you mean to include complicit with the causative violence committed by the police which sparks all the violence or are you giving them a free ride?

If you have seen the links I have posted you would have seen videos of police slashing tires, attacking journalists, knocking over people who are in full compliance with the law, cops destroying water bottles, other cops ignoring violence committed by undercover agents, etc. For some reason, forum right wingers continually ignore these police crimes.

As every rational thinking person knows, none of the responsive violence would have occurred had it not been for the causative violence committed by police. I assume you condemn it as well but, just for the record, you do, right?

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #4

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

Elijah John wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:37 pm
"Lashing out" as you say, is often violent.
So what? And?

I don't recall any black people lynching white people. But I do recall white people lynching black people. I don't recall any black people bombing black churches. But I do recall white people bombing a black southern church. I don't recall any black people going into white churches and gunning its members down. I do recall a white man going into a black church and gunning its members down. I don't recall any black uniformed officers gunning unarmed white citizens down. But I do recall white officers gunning unarmed black citizens down.

And you have the nerve to point out the "lashing out" of black people after undergoing 400 years of mistreatment in this country and call it "violent"?

How dare you?? The audacity.
Elijah John wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:37 pm And it is often far disproportionate to any real or imagined "oppression".

Are store owners and their employees, many of whom are black, your oppressors? Do they deserve to be looted? Is looting, as one BLM Chicago leader said, a form of "reparations"?
I don't condone looting. But then again, "anger manifests itself in different ways", as one BLM leader once stated.
Elijah John wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:37 pm Are the sick children and their parents at the Ronald McDonald house in Chicago your oppressors?
No. My oppressors are those who practice, condone/support white supremacy in any shape, or form.
Elijah John wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:37 pm Do you, and/or BLM denounce the looting, shooting, arson, murder etc committed in the name of racial justice and BLM?
Do you denounce the murder of unarmed black men at the hands of typically white uniformed police officers?
Elijah John wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:37 pm Are Barrack and Michelle Obama, Beyonce, Kanye, Larry Elder and Leo Terrell "oppressed"?
Barack Obama was/is an anomaly. The United States was founded in 1776, and it took 232 years to get a black President, despite the fact that the wealth of this nation was built upon the backs of black slaves overseen by white slave masters.
Elijah John wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:37 pm Would MLK (or even Malcom X after his life changing Hajj) approve of the tactics of today's racial justice protestors? rioters or looters?
I don't know, but here is what I do know; the stolen goods and destroyed property can be replaced.

But the lives of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Freddie Gray, Ahmaud Arbery (and countless others), cannot be replaced.

So please don't compare broken glass (destruction of property due to rioting and vandalizing) to broken spines (Freddie Gray).

And lets not compare stolen property (looting due to rioting) to stolen lives (virtually all victims of mentioned).
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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #5

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #4]

BLM and their supporters often lash out at people who have absolutely nothing to do with injustice of oppression.

Looting may be "broken glass" to you, but it is destroyed livehoods to the people who are looted. It has to stop. And sometimes people who were only watching over their stores have been murdered. Also, business and goods that have been looted do not belong to the looters. That is stealing plain and simple.

And yes, of course I condemn innocent lives lost at the hands of police. But the legal system is taking care of that.

So you say Obama was an anomaly. What about the sucess of Kanye, Beyonce, etc?? They don't seem oppressed. They are celebrated in this culture.

You know what happens when BLM etc burn cities? Businesses leave, tax payers leave, the tax base evaporates and cities become wastelands. Is that what you want?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #6

Post by Elijah John »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:00 pm
Elijah John wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:37 pm Would MLK (or even Malcom X after his life changing Hajj) approve of the tactics of today's racial justice protestors? rioters or looters?
I don't know, but here is what I do know; the stolen goods and destroyed property can be replaced.

But the lives of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Freddie Gray, Ahmaud Arbery (and countless others), cannot be replaced.

So please don't compare broken glass (destruction of property due to rioting and vandalizing) to broken spines (Freddie Gray).

And lets not compare stolen property (looting due to rioting) to stolen lives (virtually all victims of mentioned).
Two wrongs don't make a right. It's a cliche, but also a timeless truth.

So the atrocities committed against some black people make it OK to lash out violently against people who had absolutely nothing to do with those atrocities you mention?? Really???

Also can the lives of David Dorn, Cannon Hinnent and many, many others murdered by black people ever be replaced? Yet it would be very wrong to target innocent black people as retribution for those murders, people who had nothing to do with them. Or the old lady who was punched to the ground by a black thug for absolutely no reason? She survived, but was no doubt traumatized and seriously injured.

So you don't condone the terrorizing of sick children and their parents at the Ronald McDonald house. Then why did BLM and/or their supporters attack that place of healing??

Yes, bad cops must be punished, we agree on that. But what does targeting good police who are just attempting to serve and protect accomplish for "the cause"?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

koko

Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #7

Post by koko »

You know what happens when BLM etc burn cities? Businesses leave, tax payers leave, the tax base evaporates and cities become wastelands. Is that what you want?


Still waiting for proof that BLM actually caused the violence. Please name its member who have been indicted for riot and violence. Again, please explain why the Trump regime has not removed that organization from its tax exempt status if it has caused the crimes you accuse it of doing.

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #8

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

Elijah John wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:02 am
Two wrongs don't make a right. It's a cliche, but also a timeless truth.
Here is a timeless truth, too..

Broken windows and stolen property doesn't compare to bullet wounds, choke holds, and murder.
Elijah John wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:02 am So the atrocities committed against some black people make it OK to lash out violently against people who had absolutely nothing to do with those atrocities you mention?? Really???
No, it is not OK.

However, I'd like to see you "speak out" against the atrocities towards black people with the same energy that you use to speak out against those being looted and vandalized.

Until you do that then your energy, in my opinion, is misplaced...which in the grand scheme of things, is part of the problem.
Elijah John wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:02 am Also can the lives of David Dorn, Cannon Hinnent and many, many others murdered by black people ever be replaced?
Very unfortunate. But the difference is, David Dorn and Cannon Hinnent weren't murdered by individuals who swore on oath to protect and serve them, and were getting paid by tax dollars to do such.

This is a false equivalence.
Elijah John wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:02 am Yet it would be very wrong to target innocent black people as retribution for those murders, people who had nothing to do with them. Or the old lady who was punched to the ground by a black thug for absolutely no reason? She survived, but was no doubt traumatized and seriously injured.
Again, false equivalence. You are comparing mere anomalies to the systematic physical, social, and economical injustices that black people have undergone in this country for the past 400 years.

So you want to talk about targeting innocent people? Rosa Parks was innocent, MLK was innocent, Emmit Till was innocent, Breonna Taylor was innocent, James Byrd was innocent, the 4 girls who were killed by those racists buffoons in Birmingham were innocent, those that were killed in the shootings in the Charleston church were innocent.

And the list goes on and on and on of the INNOCENT black people who were unjustly targeted in some way, shape, or form by either racists police, or racists white people in general.
Elijah John wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:02 am So you don't condone the terrorizing of sick children and their parents at the Ronald McDonald house. Then why did BLM and/or their supporters attack that place of healing??

Yes, bad cops must be punished, we agree on that. But what does targeting good police who are just attempting to serve and protect accomplish for "the cause"?
Well, welcome to the party. Because black people are already looked at as "suspicious" or suspect...or guilty...just for being black alone.

A black person is already looked at as the BoogeyMan, just for being black...no matter how good of a person he may be.

Case point, in recent times, the word "Karen" is used to label a white woman who calls the police on black people for whatever fiddle faddle concerns she may have.

In virtually all cases, the black person is minding his/her own business as an American citizen, and a white woman, for her own racially motivated reasons, decides to cause a stir and even call the police on some occasions.

Situations range from an 8 year black girl getting the police called on her because she was outside selling lemonade to a black man getting the police called on him because he was standing on a bridge.

And remember the famous case of the Starbucks manager calling the police on two black customers who only arrived at the Starbucks to attend a business meeting?

Black people have been racially profiled and discriminated against for 4 centuries and are at the top of the food chain when it comes to such treatment...so no one else gets sympathy votes until things change for us.
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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #9

Post by AgnosticBoy »

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #1]

Has BLM denounced the following...
Image


... if not, then they are complicit.

Think about that before sending your money to such a group. When they don't denounce violence then their members are left thinking that all manners of violence are acceptable.

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #10

Post by Bust Nak »

Elijah John wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:16 am But the legal system is taking care of that.
Is it though? Still no prosecution for the killing of Breonna Taylor; no prosecution for the killing of Eric Garner; acquittal for the killing of Daniel Shaver; no prosecution for killing of Tamir Rice; no prosecution for killing of Jemel Roberson.

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