Black Lives Matter and Violence

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We_Are_VENOM
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Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #1

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

This thread is an offshoot of AgnosticBoy's thread "Is Black Lives Matter Complicit in Violence"?

To answer this question, I am reminded of an interview of the great Malcolm X. Malcolm X, who was a prominent figure in the Nation of Islam in the early 60's, was asked a similar question by an interviewer on some news segment.

The question was asked of Malcolm: "..one of the most pervasive beliefs about the Nation of Islam is that it dedicated to the use of violence means to attain their goals. Do you think this is true? And if so, why does it persist in society?"

and Malcolm ingeniously responds: "....we (NOI) never initiates any violence upon anyone, but if anyone attacks us we reserve our right to defend ourselves. So to accuse us of being violent is like accusing a man of being lynched of being violent just because he struggles vigorously with his lyncher; the victim is accused of violence, but the lyncher is never accused of violence."

Blacks, in the United States of America, feel as if we (I am black) have been oppressed in every way imaginable since we were brought here on slaves ships some 400 years ago, and we continue to be oppressed to this day. And once that anger boils over, we act aggressively towards our oppressors...but when we act aggressive towards them, we are accused of being "violent"....and only in a unjust, racist world does the oppressed get called "violent" for lashing out against our oppressors, but the oppressors almost never gets looked at as "violent" and gets to play the "victims".

Or in the case of Colin Kaepernik, he received so much hell for kneeling for the national anthem, mostly from non-blacks...but if anyone noticed, those that were critical of him were more critical of him for kneeling, than they were for WHY he was kneeling in the first place!!!

If they used all of their energy and resentment towards him, and placed it on his cause instead, the world would be a much better place.

However, in recent times, I can say that I am pleased at seeing my white counterparts march with us and stand against racial inequality. We are moving in the right direction.
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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #11

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #9]

So you are taking the most EXTREME case that you can find on the internet, and using it to prove what, exactly?

The picture looks photoshopped, if you ask me.
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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #12

Post by AgnosticBoy »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:23 am [Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #9]

So you are taking the most EXTREME case that you can find on the internet, and using it to prove what, exactly?
As if looting, arson, attacking police officers are not "extreme" enough (all done by BLM protestors). Where do you draw the line when it comes to violence? If you allow looting and arson, why not rape, attacking White babies, etc? All of these can be done in the name of anger and violence, right?!
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:23 am The picture looks photoshopped, if you ask me.
So instead of condemning the picture, your first response is to deny its authenticity and offer NO EVIDENCE for your claim? Try again, with evidence.

koko

Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #13

Post by koko »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:23 am [Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #9]

So you are taking the most EXTREME case that you can find on the internet, and using it to prove what, exactly?

The picture looks photoshopped, if you ask me.


Look photoshopped, is offensive, and cops do not usually display their "evidence" before the media as an experienced attorney could easily have it disqualified as evidence before a court room.

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #14

Post by AgnosticBoy »

koko wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:57 pm
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:23 am [Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #9]

So you are taking the most EXTREME case that you can find on the internet, and using it to prove what, exactly?

The picture looks photoshopped, if you ask me.


Look photoshopped, is offensive, and cops do not usually display their "evidence" before the media as an experienced attorney could easily have it disqualified as evidence before a court room.
If that's the case, the video release of George Floyd's death to the media might also have problems. I'd like to see an "experienced attorney" try to disqualify it.

koko

Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #15

Post by koko »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:58 pm
koko wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:57 pm
We_Are_VENOM wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:23 am [Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #9]

So you are taking the most EXTREME case that you can find on the internet, and using it to prove what, exactly?

The picture looks photoshopped, if you ask me.


Look photoshopped, is offensive, and cops do not usually display their "evidence" before the media as an experienced attorney could easily have it disqualified as evidence before a court room.
If that's the case, the video release of George Floyd's death to the media might also have problems. I'd like to see an "experienced attorney" try to disqualify it.



One of the attorney (for Keung, I believe) did try that. He said it proves that Keung is not guilty and that it proves he is not responsible in any way for the crime. What a laughable argument!

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #16

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #8]

Yes, I acknowledge that police abuse and atrocities against innocent black people are very, very wrong. These are atrocities. But they are statistically isolated atrocities. And the vast majority of those cases are being (or have been) taken care of by the legal system. They are being punished, and should be punished.

And that "Karen" you refer to was paranoid at best. She over-reacted to say the least. She was wrong.

You speak of the need for more energetic objection to police brutality by people who advocate law and order. (people like me, for one). But it's like these liberal governors, mayors and city councils are weak parents, who do next to nothing as their children throw tantrums so severe that they break things, hurt and sometimes kill people. (witness the video of "protesters" pulling a man from his pickup and beating him unconscious) The children (rioters) may well have legitimate grievances, but the tantrums need to stop before constructive conversations can begin and solutions found. And the rioters should be punished, not caught and released to do it again.

Defunding does nothing to bring real justice. But that is what BLM wants. 80% of blacks want more, not less policing in their neighborhoods.

You say of course you object to looting and other destructive behavior including the attack on the Ronald McDonald house and scaring the wits out of the children and parents inside . Well and good. But on the other hand, you seem to be taking the position that only racists characterize blacks lashing-out as "violence". A bit confusing.

Many big cities have police departments that are fully integrated. Fox news has many black guests, civil rights lawyers and commentators who vehemently object to BLM and their violent tactics. And as alluded to above, most black people what more, not less policing. Why not support black people who advocate law and order instead of making excuses for those who practice destruction? It's not an either/or. One can be energetically against police brutality AND energetically against the chaos of mob violence.

BLM seems to be creating an "us verses them" conflict. BLM may well have intended the contrast to be racial justice vs. injustice. But that's not how it's coming across. How it's coming across for many of us is BLM calling for racial justice at the expense of law and order. It doesn't have to be that way.

Where do you think Jesus would come down on all this?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #17

Post by Bust Nak »

Elijah John wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:26 pm And the vast majority of those cases are being (or have been) taken care of by the legal system.
Vast majority of cases you say, does "we investigated ourselves and found that we followed policy" count as things being taken care of by the legal system?
The children (rioters) may well have legitimate grievances, but the tantrums need to stop before constructive conversations can begin and solutions found.
We've had decades (depending on when you start counting) for conversations and solution finding, yet nothing concrete has been achieve. We are only taking about this now because of the tantrums. Racism is so easy to push aside with a "things are improving, we aren't keeping slaves anymore" when there are no tantrums.
Defunding does nothing to bring real justice.
Is gunning down a suicidal person waving a knife around "real justice?" That's the kind of things defunding the police is supposed to be addressing.
But that is what BLM wants. 80% of blacks want more, not less policing in their neighborhoods.
Not mutually exclusive goals. The problem is not the amount of policing, the thing that needs changing is what the police do and how they do it.
It's not an either/or. One can be energetically against police brutality AND energetically against the chaos of mob violence.
If only those who are energetically against the chaos of mob violence show a bit more energy against police brutality.
BLM seems to be creating an "us verses them" conflict.
Too late for that, the "us verse them" was created before BLM has existed as an organisation, not least by the police. BLM is just sustaining the conflict that has long existed.

koko

Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #18

Post by koko »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:49 am [Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #1]

Has BLM denounced the following...
https://i.ibb.co/8gd1jbV/Black-racism.jpg


... if not, then they are complicit.

Think about that before sending your money to such a group. When they don't denounce violence then their members are left thinking that all manners of violence are acceptable.




There is no proof that BLM has any connection to that photo:


''it’s unknown whether the pose was intended as an earnest gesture of anti-white bias or antipathy on Jackson’s part, as opposed to a distasteful attempt at humor. Our examination of a Facebook profile that appears to belong to Jackson did not reveal further evidence of racial antipathy on his part.

Despite a rush, from some quarters, to condemn the Black Lives Matter movement by association with Jackson, our research did not uncover evidence of any earnest involvement in, or even commentary on, the broader Black Lives Matter movement, racial injustice or police brutality, on the part of Jackson. It’s unclear whether Jackson, or someone else, posted the photograph to Snapchat, and therefore whether the “Blm now mf” caption was Jackson’s own creation.''


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/isaia ... t-toddler/




Amazingly, people still attribute this photo to BLM without presenting even the slightest proof of the claim. Sadly, the USA has to some extent become a modern day Nazi style state in which it is so convenient to attribute a crime to some group whether it be BLM or Antifa without the slightest proof of the claim. This just like in Nazi Germany where Jews, liberals, and other minorities were accused without any evidence.

Thus, still waiting for proof that BLM is in any way responsible for the actions in that photo.

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #19

Post by Elijah John »

Bust Nak wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:35 am
Elijah John wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:26 pm And the vast majority of those cases are being (or have been) taken care of by the legal system.
Vast majority of cases you say, does "we investigated ourselves and found that we followed policy" count as things being taken care of by the legal system?
Yes they do, for the most part. In a few cases, the policies should be changed (like choke holds) and are being changed. But many times the "victim" in question has escalated the incident by resisting arrest, sometimes attempting to take the officer's gun or taser. In many if not most cases the "victim" in question was not just simply minding their own business but was in fact engaging in suspicious, erratic or dangerous behavior and then made the situation much much worse by resisting arrest.

Or are you arguing for the "right" of people of color to be able to commit crimes, even violent ones with impunity? I doubt you are, but sometimes I wonder about BLM and Antifa. Especially when they advocate anarchy, "burning the system down", characterize looting as "reparations", chant "pigs in a blanket fry like bacon", "no justice no peace" then deliberately disturb the peace by attempting to keep people awake at their homes or otherwise "dox" them.

You too speak of energetic opposition to injustice, but I see all the energy pretty much leveled against the police, and in favor of anarchy.

Where is the energy protesting for justice on behalf of Adam Haner? Or David Dorn? Or the five year old child for God's sake Cannon Hinnant who was shot in the head, murdered by a black man. Or that unnamed custodian who was just doing his job and was punched to the ground by a black man, for no reason? Or for some insane and evil reason.

Or the two white victims in two separate BLM episodes of violence who were also beaten and kicked in the head. Both groups of assailants then shouted "BLACK LIVES MATTER" as a finishing touch.

Where's the outrage for them and other victims of BLM violence, or violence done in the name of BLM?? Or violence commited by unaffiliate black people? Do their lives matter less??

BLM has deceived many, many people into believing they are a civil rights group. They are not. MLK would be horrified. MLK was a peaceful and Godly man.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Black Lives Matter and Violence

Post #20

Post by Bust Nak »

Elijah John wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:16 pm Yes they do, for the most part. In a few cases, the policies should be changed (like choke holds) and are being changed.
Not good enough for me. "I was following policy" is not a good enough excuse. I also don't think policies would have change without tantrum throwing.
But many times the "victim" in question has escalated the incident by resisting arrest, sometimes attempting to take the officer's gun or taser. In many if not most cases the "victim" in question was not just simply minding their own business but was in fact engaging in suspicious, erratic or dangerous behavior and then made the situation much much worse by resisting arrest.
None of this justify police brutality or being trigger happy.
Or are you arguing for the "right" of people of color to be able to commit crimes, even violent ones with impunity?
Depends on what you mean by "impunity." I arguing for the right of people of color to be able to commit crimes, even violent ones without being brutalise or worse by the police.
sometimes I wonder about BLM and Antifa. Especially when they advocate anarchy, "burning the system down", characterize looting as "reparations", chant "pigs in a blanket fry like bacon", "no justice no peace" then deliberately disturb the peace by attempting to keep people awake at their homes or otherwise "dox" them.
They? I am part of BLM and Antifa. You asked me before if the end justify the means, my answer remains the same, it justify some means. Punching a Nazi, okay; looting not okay; chanting and disturbing the peace, okay; arson, buildings with people inside, not okay, car tires and trash cans, okay.
You too speak of energetic opposition to injustice, but I see all the energy pretty much leveled against the police, and in favor of anarchy.
Same thing in practice.
Where is the energy protesting for justice on behalf of Adam Haner? Or David Dorn? Or the five year old child for God's sake Cannon Hinnant who was shot in the head, murdered by a black man. Or that unnamed custodian who was just doing his job and was punched to the ground by a black man, for no reason? Or for some insane and evil reason.

Or the two white victims in two separate BLM episodes of violence who were also beaten and kicked in the head. Both groups of assailants then shouted "BLACK LIVES MATTER" as a finishing touch.

Where's the outrage for them and other victims of BLM violence, or violence done in the name of BLM?? Or violence commited by unaffiliate black people? Do their lives matter less??
Not enough energy left.
BLM has deceived many, many people into believing they are a civil rights group. They are not. MLK would be horrified. MLK was a peaceful and Godly man.
Not seeing the connection. MLK would disapprove implies not a civil rights group?

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