If the Trinity is an eternal truth..

[Elijah John]

If the Trinity is an eternal truth, and God was always Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (even well before the incarnation), why isn't that doctrine found in the "Old" Testament, the Hebrew Bible?

Instead we have "Hear O Israel, YHVH our God, YHVH is One". (Deuteronomy 6.4) And that proclamation was to be recited by YHVH's people every day in prayer, multiple times.

[polonius]

Earl wrote to Polonius:

I have not read your counter to the opposition to the Trinity and why.

Opposition to the trinity is found throughout the Scriptures. One small example is found in the 'Clear Challenges for the Trinity Doctrine' thread found in this forum.

Maybe you can be the first to defend these specific challenges.

RESPONSE:

"The Father is greater than I" John 14:28

And didn't Jesus admit that he didn't know when end times would occur? He says that only the Father does.

Mark 13:32 32"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Matthew 24:36-42 36"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father

THis evidences that Jesus was lacking in some divine knowledge, thus not equal to God.

[earl]

polonius,
I am in total agreement with the verses you present.
There remains an element of confusion that everyone skips over or just don't think of.
Jesus is a begotten son not Trinity origin Son.
The Trinity remains all knowing and the offspring of God is a begotten son ,Jesus as we know him.
Glad you brought that up.
Jesus is Divine in his own right but The Trinity Son spiritually is oneness with Jesus as he is with God but Jesus is not the actual Son defined in the Trinity.
When the Word was made flesh it was not the Son actually stepping away from the Trinity position and coming to Earth ,that would breech the Trinity but a begotten son who is fully representing the Son.And as he is the Father.
And this is how the word was made flesh.

[earl]

polonius,
Now the scriptures fall into harmony from the above post.

[earl]

For all practical purposes and intent as Paul said Jesus is God.

[earl]

To add A begotten son has a beginning,hence begotten.
The 3 of the Trinity are without beginning.No one begat them.

[polonius]

polonius,
I am in total agreement with the verses you present.
There remains an element of confusion that everyone skips over or just don't think of.
Jesus is a begotten son not Trinity origin Son.
The Trinity remains all knowing and the offspring of God is a begotten son ,Jesus as we know him.
Glad you brought that up.
Jesus is Divine in his own right but The Trinity Son spiritually is oneness with Jesus as he is with God but Jesus is not the actual Son defined in the Trinity.
When the Word was made flesh it was not the Son actually stepping away from the Trinity position and coming to Earth ,that would breech the Trinity but a begotten son who is fully representing the Son.And as he is the Father.
And this is how the word was made flesh.

RESPONSE: If Jesus was "begotten" he wasn't eternal, ie. could not be God.

[polonius]

For all practical purposes and intent as Paul said Jesus is God.

RESPONSE: Please provide your scriptural (or other) source for your claim.

[polonius]

To add A begotten son has a beginning,hence begotten.
The 3 of the Trinity are without beginning.No one begat them.

RESPONSE: Yes. If Jesus was "begotten" and hence not eternal, he could never be God.

[earl]

polonius,
For all practical purposes and intent,Jesus is God.
The reference to this is Jesus said I and my Father are one and Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father.
For the other post,Jesus as I said is begotten,a beginning.
You state not eternal however we can by our actions obtain eternal life.
So your choice of word may mislead some.
Jesus has a beginning,begotten ,and from there he is eternal thereafter.
This explanation is complete don't you think?

[brianbbs67]

If it is true why did the original Mathew 28:19 read:

For he did not enjoin them to make disciples of all nations simply and without qualification, but with the essential addition "in his name". For great virtue attached to his appellation that the Apostle says, Yahweh bestowed on him the name above every name, that in the name of Yeshua every knee shall bow of things in heaven and under the earth. It was right therefore that he should emphasize the virtue of power residing in his name but hidden from many, and therefore say to his Apostles, Goye, and make disciples of all nations in my name.

If it is true why did Pauline Christians of Catholic church burn Ebion (the poor) documents and persecute them? Polycarp,[3] the last known living connection with the Apostles, who in turn was said to have heard John the Evangelist. burned and stabbed. Murdered all representatives of Jesus no wonder he said they were murderers from the beginning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarp

That's a good point. I had not considered who it was that killed Polycarp. I do know him and his epistles and of course Iraneous. I woke one day about 2 years ago saying Polycarp. I knew not why but did immediately study him.