Paradise on Earth

Exploring the details of Christianity

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tam
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Post #1341

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1334 by tam]

Again nobody is saying anointing didnt happen but you are saying that (correct me if Im wrong) there are no unanointed Christians alive on earth today. If thats not what you are claiming what are you on about?

Christians are anointed ones (baptized/anointed with holy spirit).


It does not make sense to say that there is an 'unanointed' Christian. An 'unanointed' follower of Christ is a disciple, as the apostles were before receiving holy spirit.

Like them, we start out as disciples only (if indeed we are following and listening to Christ) and then become Christian (if and when we receive holy spirit). Christ is the One who chooses.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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JehovahsWitness
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Post #1342

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1338 by tam]

So you are saying that an unanointed baptised follower of christ cannot rightly be called a "Christian"?



You might like to note the meaning of the word Christian before answering.
The Greek word Χ�ιστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χ�ιστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one", with an adjectival ending borrowed from Latin to denote adhering to, or even belonging to, as in slave ownership.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians



JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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tam
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Post #1343

Post by tam »

Peace to you,

You might like to note the meaning of the word Christian before answering.
The Greek word Χ�ιστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χ�ιστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one", with an adjectival ending borrowed from Latin to denote adhering to, or even belonging to, as in slave ownership.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians
I did respond to this above:

So yes, a Christian is a follower of Christ. And yes, a Christian does belong to Christ. But a Christian is also anointed (baptized) with holy spirit. And there is no example from what is written that shows otherwise.




The definition is not untrue; it is just not complete.

And if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9


See also:

https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... 53#1005153



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Last edited by tam on Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #1344

Post by tam »

[Replying to post 1340 by tam]

To add to the previous post, here is something that might be of interest:

The etymology of the word "Christian" that you provided only seems to go back so far, the 1500's according to this link:

1520s as a noun, "a believer in and follower of Christ;" 1550s as an adjective, "professing the Christian religion, received into the Christian church," 16c. forms replacing Middle English Cristen (adjective and noun), from Old English cristen, from a West Germanic borrowing of Church Latin christianus, from Ecclesiastical Greek christianos, from Christos (see Christ).

https://www.etymonline.com/word/christian



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Post #1345

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to post 1294 by tam]

No, I do not believe that non-Christians will live forever on the earth. I believe that many non-Christians will be spared at Armageddon and will go into Christ's Millennial Reign where they will be instructed as to the truth about God and Christ. At the end of the thousand years, after Satan and his ilk are all gone, there will be only Christians left on the earth to live forever.


"The righteous will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." (Psalm 37:29)


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Post #1346

Post by tam »

Peace to you owh!

[Replying to post 1342 by onewithhim]

Okay, but you do believe that non-Christians will be on the earth during the millennial reign. So these would be subjects of the Kingdom. Which is what I said:
Whom: the subjects of the Kingdom (people of the nations who are invited into the Kingdom on the basis of how they treated Christ, since whatever one does to/for even a least one of His brothers, one does to/for Him). Non-Christians... Tam
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... 85#1004985

Then you said that that was inconsistent with scripture:

https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... 90#1004990

But now you are saying also that some (many) non-Christians will be there in the Kingdom (during the millennial reign).




So I do not understand what you are objecting to?



Peace again to you.

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Post #1347

Post by onewithhim »

tam wrote: Peace to you,
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1313 by tam]

I dont need you to tell me to take note of what my own literature says, than you very much.

As I said I am simply asking for a scripture (with the word anointed in it) that stopulates that one cannot be a Christian without being anointed. If you step beyond scripture do not be surprised is you are called up on it.


JW

Well I already responded to this point a ways back. All Christians in the examples from what is written are indeed anointed with holy spirit. There is no example or teaching otherwise. Your own religion teaches that all first century Christians were anointed (and that would be all the examples of Christians that we have in what is written).




Peace again to you.
No, not ALL first century Christians were anointed. Only those that were alive when the anointing of holy spirit came down at Pentecost. Jesus' father Joseph was certainly a Christian, but apparently he wasn't alive when Jesus died & rose again and sent the holy spirit to anoint Christians. Therefore, Joseph is an example of Christians who were not anointed and who will be resurrected back to life on Earth. John the Baptist is another. Jesus said that "a person that is a lesser one in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is." (Matt.11:11) Clearly this indicates that John will not be part of the 144,000 who will rule with Christ in heaven. He is a Christian who will live in Paradise on Earth forever.

Look a little closer at what is written. :D


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Post #1348

Post by onewithhim »

tam wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
tam wrote: All Christians in the examples from what is written are indeed anointed with holy spirit. There is no example or teaching otherwise. Your own religion teaches that all first century Christians were anointed (and that would be all the examples of Christians that we have in what is written).

You wrote your opinion I am asking for a scripture (with the word anointed in it) that proves that the future subjects of the rulers (which you admit will not be anointed, correct me if I'm wrong) cannot become Christians.
In addition to what was already said...


John, speaking to Christians:

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[e] 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 1 John 2:20


As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him. 1John 2:27



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Indeed, John was speaking to anointed Christians. That was the focus of Jesus and his disciples---to gather the people who would rule with him. Through the centuries, there continued to be those added to the specific number. When the number was near completion, many people started to feel that they wanted to live on the Earth, and millions now have had that hope.

Eight million people now have the wonderful hope of living on the earth forever. We don't partake of the emblems with which Christ concluded a covenant with his soon-to-be-anointed Apostles.


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Post #1349

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
onewithhim wrote:
tam wrote: Peace to you,
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1313 by tam]

I dont need you to tell me to take note of what my own literature says, than you very much.

As I said I am simply asking for a scripture (with the word anointed in it) that stopulates that one cannot be a Christian without being anointed. If you step beyond scripture do not be surprised is you are called up on it.


JW

Well I already responded to this point a ways back. All Christians in the examples from what is written are indeed anointed with holy spirit. There is no example or teaching otherwise. Your own religion teaches that all first century Christians were anointed (and that would be all the examples of Christians that we have in what is written).




Peace again to you.
No, not ALL first century Christians were anointed. Only those that were alive when the anointing of holy spirit came down at Pentecost. Jesus' father Joseph was certainly a Christian, but apparently he wasn't alive when Jesus died & rose again and sent the holy spirit to anoint Christians.


This is an interesting idea, but unless Joseph was alive after the spirit was given, and he received that spirit, then he was not a Christian.



Therefore, Joseph is an example of Christians who were not anointed and who will be resurrected back to life on Earth.


Unless Joseph received holy spirit before he died (from Christ, after Christ's death and resurrection), he was not Christian. I agree with you that he will be resurrected, yes. He is also Israel, and all Israel will be saved.


John the Baptist is another. Jesus said that "a person that is a lesser one in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is." (Matt.11:11)


Because John the Baptist was not Christian... and so not part of the Body of Christ, the Bride. He died before holy spirit was given. He will have his own place, mind you.
Clearly this indicates that John will not be part of the 144,000 who will rule with Christ in heaven. He is a Christian who will live in Paradise on Earth forever.
There is nothing in what is written to state that either Joseph or John (the baptist) were Christian.

Look a little closer at what is written. :D

Your ideas are interesting but not clear from what is written.


The points in this particular conversation are going to hinge upon what it means to be Christian. I'm not sure I have anything to add that has not already been said in response to JW.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Post #1350

Post by JehovahsWitness »

tam wrote:
Okay, but you do believe that non-Christians will be on the earth during the millennial reign.
No nobody that doesnt accept Christ and submit to his reign will be allowed to live on during the millenium. So no we do not believe that non-Christians will be on the earth during the millennial reign

Perhaps some some non Christians will be judged as worthy of surviving into the millenium, but do you think that someone that has just seen the Lord arriving with all his angels, destroy the wicked and let them live will not immediately convert to being a Christian? All it took for Paul was a light and a conversation and his repentance was immediate. The day he saw the Lord was the last day he was a "non-Christian". Evidently any non-Christians judged worthy of survival will be Christians from day #1 of the millenium.
But those last minute non-anointed Christian converts will not be the ONLY Christians in Paradise. The majority of survivors of the tribulation will be non-anointed subject who have been Christians for many decades.


JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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