Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[tam]

Peace to you Checkpoint!

[Replying to tam in post #1666]

Do you see the dilemma?

Good question. Not as such.

Please elaborate or clarify what it is.

Physically dead = in heir graves. Physically alive = standing before...

Grace and peace.

Just this:

How can Christians who have come to life at the start of the thousand years, then be among the dead who are resurrected (some to judgment and the second death... and some to life) at the end of the thousand years?



Peace again to you!

[tam]

Peace to you Pinseeker!

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #1670]

Now, this timeline, subscribed to by many, is incorrect:

[PENTECOST (Acts 2)..............first RETURN OF THE KING/"RAPTURE"....GREAT TRIBULATION (7 years).....second RETURN OF THE KING....1000 YEARS...ETERNITY]

I did not present that timeline and do not subscribe to it. The dilemma you are seeing in it does not apply to me. But both timelines that you presented are incorrect in parts, according to the understanding I have received from my Lord. We can see a dilemma in your timeline (showing it to be incorrect) because Satan is currently still deceiving the nations (including about the gospel), and yet he must be bound and sealed in the abyss at the start of the thousand years, in order to keep him from deceiving the nations until the thousand years are over (Rev 20:1-3). He has not been sealed or bound in the abyss; indeed he is a roaring lion prowling around looking for someone to devour (1Peter 5:8). And the nations are indeed deceived (Rev 13).

What I have understood from my Lord's teaching would be as follows (I'm just summarizing the major points that we are discussing):

- Great Tribulation (cut short for the sake of the elect)
- Christ returns (cutting that tribulation short) and gathers up to Him all who belong to Him (this is the first resurrection, 1Corinth 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:16, 17, Matt 24:31), for the marriage of the Lamb and the Bride
- the "thousand years" begins (the sheep and the goats are separated at this time)
- Satan is released at the end of the thousand years (he was bound and sealed in the abyss at the start of the thousand years); he deceives 'gog and magog' to ride across the earth to attack the people God loves; but fire comes down from heaven and destroys them (that would be the great war of God/Armageddon)
- the second resurrection and judgment (the dead - great and small - are resurrected, some to life and some to judgment and the second death)





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[PinSeeker]

I did not present that timeline and do not subscribe to it. The dilemma you are seeing in it does not apply to me. But both timelines that you presented are incorrect in parts, according to the understanding I have received from my Lord. We can see a dilemma in your timeline (showing it to be incorrect) because Satan is currently still deceiving the nations (including about the gospel), and yet he must be bound and sealed in the abyss at the start of the thousand years, in order to keep him from deceiving the nations until the thousand years are over (Rev 20:1-3). He has not been sealed or bound in the abyss; indeed he is a roaring lion prowling around looking for someone to devour (1Peter 5:8). And the nations are indeed deceived (Rev 13).

What I have understood from my Lord's teaching would be as follows (I'm just summarizing the major points that we are discussing):

- Great Tribulation (cut short for the sake of the elect)
- Christ returns (cutting that tribulation short) and gathers up to Him all who belong to Him (this is the first resurrection, 1Corinth 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:16, 17, Matt 24:31), for the marriage of the Lamb and the Bride
- the "thousand years" begins (the sheep and the goats are separated at this time)
- Satan is released at the end of the thousand years (he was bound and sealed in the abyss at the start of the thousand years); he deceives 'gog and magog' to ride across the earth to attack the people God loves; but fire comes down from heaven and destroys them (that would be the great war of God/Armageddon)
- the second resurrection and judgment (the dead - great and small - are resurrected, some to life and some to judgment and the second death)

There's one issue with your take, Tam, and that is your understanding of what it means for Satan to be bound. And that kind of causes the rest of your take to go off track. Satan's binding is not in the sense that he is not strictly quarantined, so to speak, and unable to do anything. The binding of Satan is rather that his power to influence the nations is suppressed -- which may sound mild, but is no mild thing.

So, some associate this event with the advent of an extraordinary future era of peace and prosperity, contrasting with the present. This is what you are doing -- I certainly mean no disrespect -- it's incorrect. The following two verses would seem, on first blush, to indicate Satan is unbound...

• "...we wanted to come to you -- I, Paul, again and again -- but Satan hindered us." [1 Thessalonians 2:18]

• "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." [1 Peter 5:8]

...but this is not the case. The binding of Satan has already taken place through Christ’s death and resurrection:

• "Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out." [John 12:31]

• "He (God) disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in Him (Jesus)." [Colossians 2:15]

• "And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world -- he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." [Revelation 12:9]

• "Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man?" [Matthew 12:29]

The present spread of the gospel to the nations, as initiated in Acts, is the result of a restriction on Satan’s power to deceive. He can still try, and does, but his attempts are ultimately futile. The loosing of Satan in 20:7-10 represents his final attempt, leading to his final defeat. Gog and Magog are names from Ezekiel 38-39 representing the final enemies of God. Having been loosed completely, Satan is finally able to gather the nations to battle, as in Revelation 16:14. His desire all through history has been to muster all human beings into united opposition to God, and now he finally achieved his desire, after a fashion. But opposing God is always futile. Satan is summoning the nations only to experience his final doom.

So again, Satan has been bound through the triumph of Christ in his crucifixion and resurrection. Once this is understood, the rest can follow and must. Since Satan is bound now, we must be in the midst of the Millennium, and we are enduring tribulation now. And since this has been the case since Christ's crucifixion and resurrection, the Millennium of Revelation 20 must not be a literal 1000-year period, but of unknown length with regard to our time. And there will not be two returns of Christ, but only one, at the end of this Millennium, after a great ramping up of the tribulations now being endured (which may already be occurring).

So we correct your timeline above thusly:

• the "thousand years" and tribulation begins (which occurred 2000+ years ago)

• Great Tribulation -- occurs near the end of the "thousand years", in which Satan is released; this is indeed cut short for the sake of the Elect

• Christ returns[/b] (cutting all tribulation short)

• the second resurrection occurs

the sheep and the goats are separated; this is the Judgment, where those on Jesus's right will enter into eternal life and those on Jesus's left will be sent away into "outer darkness," the second death)

Grace and peace to you, Tam.

[PinSeeker]

How can Christians who have come to life at the start of the thousand years, then be among the dead who are resurrected (some to judgment and the second death... and some to life) at the end of the thousand years?

Yes, you posed this question to Checkpoint, and it's a good question. I would turn the same question to you, as this seems exactly the error you are running into also.

Grace and peace to you.

[tam]

Peace to you,

How can Christians who have come to life at the start of the thousand years, then be among the dead who are resurrected (some to judgment and the second death... and some to life) at the end of the thousand years?

Yes, you posed this question to Checkpoint, and it's a good question. I would turn the same question to you, as this seems exactly the error you are running into also.

Grace and peace to you.

Christians (anointed ones) are not among the dead (great and small) standing before the great throne at the judgment (at the second resurrection).

Christians (annointed ones) were all resurrected at the first resurrection; they are alive, not dead.

The dead (great and small) at the second resurrection are non-Christians who had physically died (since the beginning of man), and are now being resurrected - some are resurrected to life (according to their deeds) and some are resurrected to judgment and the second death (also according to their deeds). This is the resurrection of the dead. No Christian takes part in this resurrection; Christians were resurrected at the first resurrection and are already alive (both spiritually and physically).



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

Peace to you,

I did not present that timeline and do not subscribe to it. The dilemma you are seeing in it does not apply to me. But both timelines that you presented are incorrect in parts, according to the understanding I have received from my Lord. We can see a dilemma in your timeline (showing it to be incorrect) because Satan is currently still deceiving the nations (including about the gospel), and yet he must be bound and sealed in the abyss at the start of the thousand years, in order to keep him from deceiving the nations until the thousand years are over (Rev 20:1-3). He has not been sealed or bound in the abyss; indeed he is a roaring lion prowling around looking for someone to devour (1Peter 5:8). And the nations are indeed deceived (Rev 13).

What I have understood from my Lord's teaching would be as follows (I'm just summarizing the major points that we are discussing):

- Great Tribulation (cut short for the sake of the elect)
- Christ returns (cutting that tribulation short) and gathers up to Him all who belong to Him (this is the first resurrection, 1Corinth 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:16, 17, Matt 24:31), for the marriage of the Lamb and the Bride
- the "thousand years" begins (the sheep and the goats are separated at this time)
- Satan is released at the end of the thousand years (he was bound and sealed in the abyss at the start of the thousand years); he deceives 'gog and magog' to ride across the earth to attack the people God loves; but fire comes down from heaven and destroys them (that would be the great war of God/Armageddon)
- the second resurrection and judgment (the dead - great and small - are resurrected, some to life and some to judgment and the second death)

There's one issue with your take, Tam, and that is your understanding of what it means for Satan to be bound. And that kind of causes the rest of your take to go off track. Satan's binding is not in the sense that he is not strictly quarantined, so to speak, and unable to do anything.

So you say.

But I have no reason to accept that interpretation.

This interpretation is not what is written, nor is this what my Lord has taught me. I'm not going to accept something man says over something my Lord has taught.

So, some associate this event with the advent of an extraordinary future era of peace and prosperity, contrasting with the present. This is what you are doing -- I certainly mean no disrespect -- it's incorrect. The following two verses would seem, on first blush, to indicate Satan is unbound...

• "...we wanted to come to you -- I, Paul, again and again -- but Satan hindered us." [1 Thessalonians 2:18]

• "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." [1 Peter 5:8]

Those verses indicate that Satan is not yet bound and sealed in the abyss, because he is not yet bound and sealed in the abyss. We would not have to be on guard against him if he were bound and sealed in the abyss. We would not have to watch out that we are not deceived by him if he were bound and sealed in the abyss (and so, unable to deceive the nations).

And here is another verse for you to mull over:

If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And if I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven it in the presence of Christ for your sake, 11in order that Satan should not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.


You can see Paul states here that Satan is both scheming and trying to outwit 'us'.

This is deception.

If we remain in Christ and listen to Him - keeping our eyes and our ears turned to Christ (the TRUTH) - then we will not be deceived.

But many people are in fact deceived. Again, see Rev 13


Your explanation waters 'no longer able to deceive the nations' down to... 'oh, his deceptions are futile'... but that is not what the verse states. The verse states that he is not able to deceive the nations during the thousand years. Right now he is able to deceive the nations.

...but this is not the case. The binding of Satan has already taken place through Christ’s death and resurrection:

• "Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out." [John 12:31]

Being cast out of something (such as heaven: "Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."... see Rev 12:10-17)... does not mean that one has been bound and sealed in the abyss.

• "He (God) disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in Him (Jesus)." [Colossians 2:15]

• "And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world -- he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." [Revelation 12:9]

Cast out of heaven and thrown down to the earth, yes.

This is not Satan being bound and sealed in the abyss, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years are over. (Although the claim that he is bound and sealed and no longer able to deceive the nations... well, that is quite the deception in and of itself.)

• "Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man?" [Matthew 12:29]

This is a question, not a statement that Satan has been bound and sealed in the abyss to keep him from deceiving the nations.

The present spread of the gospel to the nations, as initiated in Acts, is the result of a restriction on Satan’s power to deceive. He can still try, and does, but his attempts are ultimately futile.

Most of the world has been deceived, Pinseeker. Rev 13.

The interpretation that you have accepted is not in line with what is written, nor is it in line with what we can see in the world today.

The loosing of Satan in 20:7-10 represents his final attempt, leading to his final defeat.

Indeed, but he was not able to deceive at all during the thousand years that he was bound and sealed in the abyss (an actual place).

Gog and Magog are names from Ezekiel 38-39 representing the final enemies of God. Having been loosed completely, Satan is finally able to gather the nations to battle, as in Revelation 16:14. His desire all through history has been to muster all human beings into united opposition to God, and now he finally achieved his desire, after a fashion. But opposing God is always futile. Satan is summoning the nations only to experience his final doom.

His and theirs, yes.

So again, Satan has been bound through the triumph of Christ in his crucifixion and resurrection. Once this is understood, the rest can follow and must. Since Satan is bound now, we must be in the midst of the Millennium, and we are enduring tribulation now.

But Satan is not yet bound.

And since this has been the case since Christ's crucifixion and resurrection, the Millennium of Revelation 20 must not be a literal 1000-year period, but of unknown length with regard to our time. And there will not be two returns of Christ, but only one, at the end of this Millennium, after a great ramping up of the tribulations now being endured (which may already be occurring).

The return of Christ occurs at the beginning of the thousand years. I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that Christ returns once - then the 7-year trib happens - then Christ returns again.

So we correct your timeline above thusly:

No. You are free to disagree with what I shared, but your 'correction' is based upon an interpretation that is itself in error.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[PinSeeker]

Christians (anointed ones) are not among the dead (great and small) standing before the great throne at the judgment (at the second resurrection).

Well, now... ... that depends on what you mean by "dead":

All of us, Christian or not, will be present for the Judgment. All those who have physically died will have been physically resurrected upon Jesus's return. This is the second resurrection. All will be physically alive and present at the Judgment. And then depending on where one stands in the Judgment, he or she will have been resurrected, as you point out, either to eternal life or to eternal punishment. But in the strict physical sense, absolutely no one will be physically dead at the Judgment. No one.

Now, if you mean spiritually dead, as in dead in sin -- as many walking among us right now surely are; we are all this way from birth until we are born again of the Spirit -- then yes, I agree with you. If one is indeed a Christian, then he or she has been born again (the first resurrection, which is spiritual in nature) and will not be numbered among those who were never born again and are thus still dead in their sin (even though physically alive, having also been physically resurrected upon Jesus's return.

Christians (annointed ones) were all resurrected at the first resurrection; they are alive, not dead.

Agreed. But again, your definition of "dead" seems to be very... limited. This first resurrection happens some time during their physical lives on earth. As Paul, speaking to folks physically alive, says:

• "...God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ -- by grace you have been saved -- and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ." [Ephesians 2:4-6]

And as Peter, speaking to folks physically alive, says:

• "...the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ... (has) ...caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead..." [1 Peter 1:3]

The dead (great and small) at the second resurrection are non-Christians who had physically died (since the beginning of man), and are now being resurrected - some are resurrected to life (according to their deeds) and some are resurrected to judgment and the second death (also according to their deeds). This is the resurrection of the dead. No Christian takes part in this resurrection; Christians were resurrected at the first resurrection and are already alive (both spiritually and physically).

So, regarding Revelation 20, it is a summary, basically, of the entire Church Age -- which fits with the entirety of Revelation. Revelation is a series of retellings of the whole of human history from Pentecost to Christ's return and subsequent events leading up to the New Heaven and New Earth, which are finally made one in Revelation 21.

Regarding Revelation 20 specifically:

• verses 1-3 cover symbolically the events at the very beginning of the Church Age, after Jesus's life, death, resurrection, and ascension; Satan, having been bound, is no longer able to deceive the nations and impede the Gospel and people coming to Christ (though he can still try, and certainly does)

• verses 4-6 cover all events after the binding of Satan up to very close to Jesus's return; there has been, is, and will be tribulation during this period -- Jesus says much about tribulation and persecution, saying, "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" and "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account", and He also says that some will fall away because of this tribulation and persecution.

• verses 7-9a cover symbolically the events at the end of the tribulation period, in which, as Jesus says, "...there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be..."

• verses 9b-10 symbolically describe Christ's return, His putting to an end all tribulation, and His final victory over Satan

• verses 11-15 describe, of course, the Judgment and the resulting second death for those remaining dead in their sin

Yeah, I mean, you can say "my Lord taught me this" all you want, and I respect that. But I would say the same thing -- my Lord taught me these things. One of us is not hearing correctly, right? So you may say, "Well, of course it's you, dear PinSeeker, who is not hearing correctly." Well, that doesn't bother me in the least. With all due respect, I would give that right back to you: It's you not hearing correctly.

Grace and peace to you, Tammy.

[PinSeeker]

So you say.

So I know. Because my Lord has taught me this, and the Spirit helps me to discern the truths of the Father's Word.

But I have no reason to accept that interpretation.

I would say you do, but not because it's just what I or any other mere human being says.

This interpretation is not what is written...

Yes, it is, Tam.

I'm not going to accept something man says over something my Lord has taught.

I'm with you on that, I understand that you are convicted of that, but one can be mistaken about what he or she things the Lord has taught.

So, some associate this event with the advent of an extraordinary future era of peace and prosperity, contrasting with the present. This is what you are doing -- I certainly mean no disrespect -- it's incorrect. The following two verses would seem, on first blush, to indicate Satan is unbound...

• "...we wanted to come to you -- I, Paul, again and again -- but Satan hindered us." [1 Thessalonians 2:18]

• "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." [1 Peter 5:8]

Those verses indicate that Satan is not yet bound and sealed in the abyss, because he is not yet bound and sealed in the abyss. We would not have to be on guard against him if he were bound and sealed in the abyss. We would not have to watch out that we are not deceived by him if he were bound and sealed in the abyss (and so, unable to deceive the nations).

And here is another verse for you to mull over:

If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And if I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven it in the presence of Christ for your sake, 11in order that Satan should not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.


You can see Paul states here that Satan is both scheming and trying to outwit 'us'.

This is deception.

If we remain in Christ and listen to Him - keeping our eyes and our ears turned to Christ (the TRUTH) - then we will not be deceived.

But many people are in fact deceived. Again, see Rev 13


Your explanation waters 'no longer able to deceive the nations' down to... 'oh, his deceptions are futile'... but that is not what the verse states. The verse states that he is not able to deceive the nations during the thousand years. Right now he is able to deceive the nations.

You're conflating two concepts, Tammy. No, right now (since Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension), Satan is most assuredly not able to deceive the nations. He is not able to impede the Gospel and people coming to Christ (though he can still try, and certainly does). In this way, he is bound. But individual persons can be deceived by Satan -- he can still throw his "flaming darts," as Paul puts it in Ephesians 6:16, and thus our need as believers to put on the whole armor of God, so that we may be able to stand against his schemes (Ephesians 6:11). This is Paul's exhortation to each one of us. But all Satan's schemes will eventually fail and his flaming darts will not have the desired effect in the end, because the Lord will protect us in the strength of His might (Ephesians 6:10). As Jude says, He will keep us from stumbling and present us each blameless before the presence of His glory with great joy (Jude 24). Satan can try to sow doubt in each one of us, but he cannot deceive the nations any longer as he once could before Jesus, the Lord of the all nations) came. He is kept from this, and in this way is bound.

Most of the world has been deceived, Pinseeker. Rev 13.

I agree. But again, you're conflating two entirely different things.

The interpretation that you have accepted is not in line with what is written, nor is it in line with what we can see in the world today.

In your opinion. Yes, I understand that. The people of God will be, ultimately, from every tongue, tribe, and nation, and numbering as the stars of heaven and the grains of sand in the sea. Satan is no longer able to deceive the nations.

The loosing of Satan in 20:7-10 represents his final attempt, leading to his final defeat.

Indeed, but he was not able to deceive at all during the thousand years that he was bound and sealed in the abyss (an actual place).

Well, right, he is not able to deceive the nations during the "thousand years" in which he is bound, which we are in the midst of. Yes, he is bound. That anyone thinks he is not just means that he is still able to sow seeds of doubt in -- throw his flaming darts at -- individual believers.

The return of Christ occurs at the beginning of the thousand years. I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that Christ returns once - then the 7-year trib happens - then Christ returns again.

I respect your opinion, but no, no, and no. He returns at the close of the Church Age, the "thousand years," the complete time God has allotted to build Christ's Kingdom, in which we believers are all fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord (Ephesians 3:19-21).

...your 'correction' is based upon an interpretation that is itself in error.

Well, no... I mean, I respect your interpretation/opinion, and as you said of me, you are surely free to hold to it. But mine is not incorrect, but rather yours is.

Grace and peace to you, Tammy.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Christians (anointed ones) are not among the dead (great and small) standing before the great throne at the judgment (at the second resurrection).

Well, now... ... that depends on what you mean by "dead":

No, it doesn't. Christians (anointed ones) are not among the dead (great and small), no matter how you interpret 'dead'.

You asked me to answer the question I asked Checkpoint. But the question does not apply to me. Because I am not the one claiming that the people (Christians;anointed ones) who are resurrected and alive at the start of the thousand years are then also the dead (great and small) at the end of the thousand years.

All of us, Christian or not, will be present for the Judgment.

Christians have already been given life (in Christ); there is no judgment for them; they are covered in the blood of the lamb. They might be present at the judgment, I do not know, but they are not the ones being resurrected (some to life and some to judgment and the second death).

All those who have physically died will have been physically resurrected upon Jesus's return.

No. Upon His return, those who are in Christ (but who died) are resurrected (this is the first resurrection)... AND... those who are alive who are in Christ are caught up to meet them in the sky (1Corinth 15:51-52; 1 Thess 4:16, 17).

Note that there is no judgment happening at this time. There is a marriage that is taking place: the wedding between the Lamb and His Bride.

**

I am going to point something out that I was just reminded of as well:

From the first resurrection:

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

From verse 5, the part that I highlighted and bolded... note that it states that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years are ended. This is clearly making a distinction between those who come to life in the first resurrection and those who come to life in the second resurrection. So how can this be talking about the same people?

**

Christians (annointed ones) were all resurrected at the first resurrection; they are alive, not dead.

Agreed. But again, your definition of "dead" seems to be very... limited. This first resurrection happens some time during their physical lives on earth.

A resurrection requires a person to have been deceased.

We have life in us if Christ (the LIFE) is in us, yes. But that is not the resurrection. Not the first or the second.

As Paul, speaking to folks physically alive, says:

• "...God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ -- by grace you have been saved -- and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ." [Ephesians 2:4-6]

And as Peter, speaking to folks physically alive, says:

• "...the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ... (has) ...caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead..." [1 Peter 1:3]

Yes, we are alive in Christ - because Christ - the LIFE - is in us. And we know that even if we die (physically) we will live (because of Christ).

The holy spirit (the breath, blood, seed of JAH) is the token that we are given, the promise/guarantee of things yet to come.

Yeah, I mean, you can say "my Lord taught me this" all you want, and I respect that. But I would say the same thing -- my Lord taught me these things. One of us is not hearing correctly, right? So you may say, "Well, of course it's you, dear PinSeeker, who is not hearing correctly." Well, that doesn't bother me in the least. With all due respect, I would give that right back to you: It's you not hearing correctly.

You are having a hypothetical conversation with yourself, dear Pinseeker.

I have simply given credit where credit is due.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[onewithhim]

Checkpoint wrote:

I too "believe many millions will be living" in the Paradise conditions described as being the new order, as outlined in Revelation 21 and 22.

onewithhim wrote:

Indeed, I agree with you whole heartedly.

What an amazingly positive future mankind has to look forward to

We agree that a promised Paradise is coming.

We disagree sharply as to when.

Can you see any of Matthew 24 being fulfilled already? (Why would Jesus mention wars as a sign of the approaching end, unless they were wars like the earth had never experienced? Like World Wars? I think that is what he was referring to. And when did they start? WWI was in 1914-1918.)

.