Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim, you said in your OP:

“When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.”

I find you post interesting to say the least.

My response:

I agree with you regarding the restoration issue and assume you are referring to the following scriptures which deal with the restoring of all things since the world began:


Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.


Micah4: 1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.


Joel 2: 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:


Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.


Matthew 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.


Acts 3; 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Revelation 14: 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,


Now Onewithhim, here are a few things you should consider carefully regarding “The Restoration of ALL things since the world began”

Now, I agree with you that the earth will be restored to it’s Paradisical state before the fall.

Thus Adam and Eve were not subject to death before the fall. If they were not subject to death, then their marriage would have continued for eternity. Can you explain this “ETERNAL MARRIAGE” doctrine as established by the Lord???

Kind regards,
RW

You have a good comprehension of many things. Yes, Adam and Eve would've been married for all time....eternity. I ask you, without a condescedning attitude, is that a problem? As JW said, Jesus re-stated the marriage principle as was recorded at Genesis 2:24. "A man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh." (See Jesus' words at Matthew 19:5,6.) That is what we know of the "eternal marriage doctrine." It is simple. And if you find an awsome mate to begin with, you should be quite content forever.

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim, you said in your OP:

“When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.”

I find you post interesting to say the least.

My response:

I agree with you regarding the restoration issue and assume you are referring to the following scriptures which deal with the restoring of all things since the world began:


Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.


Micah4: 1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.


Joel 2: 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:


Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.


Matthew 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.


Acts 3; 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Revelation 14: 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,


Now Onewithhim, here are a few things you should consider carefully regarding “The Restoration of ALL things since the world began”

Now, I agree with you that the earth will be restored to it’s Paradisical state before the fall.

Thus Adam and Eve were not subject to death before the fall. If they were not subject to death, then their marriage would have continued for eternity. Can you explain this “ETERNAL MARRIAGE” doctrine as established by the Lord???

Kind regards,
RW

You have a good comprehension of many things. Yes, Adam and Eve would've been married for all time....eternity. I ask you, without a condescedning attitude, is that a problem? As JW said, Jesus re-stated the marriage principle as was recorded at Genesis 2:24. "A man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh." (See Jesus' words at Matthew 19:5,6.) That is what we know of the "eternal marriage doctrine." It is simple. And if you find an awsome mate to begin with, you should be quite content forever.

I was looking forward to RW's comment on my reply to his question. Hopefully he will see this and respond.

.

[Tcg]

And if you find an awsome mate to begin with, you should be quite content forever.

If on the other hand you marry a woman like Eve who leads you to sin, both you and all your offspring for all eternity will suffer. At least this would be the case if the tale is true. Well... if it is true and if God expects one to pay for all eternity for the mistakes made in one's youth.


Tcg

[Checkpoint]

And if you find an awsome mate to begin with, you should be quite content forever.

If on the other hand you marry a woman like Eve who leads you to sin, both you and all your offspring for all eternity will suffer. At least this would be the case if the tale is true. Well... if it is true and if God expects one to pay for all eternity for the mistakes made in one's youth.


Tcg

"If" can lead one anywhere, but sometimes it is a help.

Tales may be true, and other tales may be believed by many, but are false.

That is the case with the one you mentioned.

[Revelations won]

Dear onewithhim,

I have a few questions that apply to the forthcoming restoration of the earth to it’s paradisical condition that existed before “the fall”.

There are some great events that need to happen before this condition of the earth’s restoration. For example, consider the following:

1. Both Isaiah and Micah prophesied the following:

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Also see Micah 4:1-4

Where and when has this “House of the Lord” been established ?

Also where is the “Zion” located where the Lord will teach his law?

Also what or when will the Lord speak his word from Jerusalem?


2. Daniel also spoke of the God of heaven setting up a kingdom which would never be destroyed which shall break in pieces all other kingdoms…
Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Where and when was this kingdom set up?


3. Joel prophesied the following after this kingdom was set up:

Joel 2: 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Can you explain where we can find these prophesies, divine dreamland heavenly visions have occured?


4. Amos made it very clear that none of the things would be performed without prophets:

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Since it is obvious that it would require prophets, where and who are the prophets?


5. Who are the Elias or Eliases that are to come and restore all things?

Matthew 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Are you prepared to declare the “all things" that are to be restored?



6 . When has or will this time of refreshing come wherein this shall come from the “presence of the Lord” as spoken in Acts 3:19-21?

Acts 3; 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


7. I would ask you, where and when was this “dispensation of the fullness of times” established as spoken in Ephesians 1:10?

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:


8. Last, but not least, John prophesied the following:

Revelation 14: 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

If many plain and precious parts of the gospel were not lost through the apostasy, then I would submit that there would be no need for this angel in heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Can you tell me who this angel was and when this everlasting gospel was delivered to us dwelling on the earth?

9. Onewithhim please understand that I am not disputing that the earth will be restored to it’s paradisical condition before “the fall”, but this begs the question and answers regarding a man and a woman not subject to death existing in an eternal marriage?

If the earth is restored to its pre-fall condition who has the power to perform eternal marriage covenants?

When has this power been restored to man?

Kind regards,
RW

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

Thank you for your response on Sept. 7,2020. I will try to try to respond to yours and others responses, in some order or fashion.

You said "You have a good comprehension of many things. Yes, Adam and Eve would've been married for all time....eternity. I ask you, without a condescedning attitude, is that a problem? As JW said, Jesus re-stated the marriage principle as was recorded at Genesis 2:24. "A man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh." (See Jesus' words at Matthew 19:5,6.) That is what we know of the "eternal marriage doctrine." It is simple. And if you find an awsome mate to begin with, you should be quite content forever."

I will raise another interesting issue regarding JW's post which you quoted from: Genesis 2:24. "A man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh."

This brings up another question: Who is Adam's Father and Mother??? It appears that it was very obvious what his responsibility was in relation to his wife and Father and Mother.

I do hope you can respond to my quotes and questions. I would be very curious to observe your take on these issues.

Kind regards,
RW

[JehovahsWitness]

I have a few questions that apply to the forthcoming restoration of the earth to it’s paradisical condition that existed before “the fall”.

There are some great events that need to happen before this condition of the earth’s restoration. For example, consider the following:

1. Both Isaiah and Micah prophesied the following:

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Also see Micah 4:1-4

This passage isnt speaking about a literal mountain changing its height but rather about the elevation of pure worship. The true religion in the past was that centered on the Jewish temple system but that is no longer the case and never will be again. Thus Isaiah (and Micah) prophecies apply in their greatest sense to the elevation in size and quality of pure worship as practiced by the true Christian organization.

Where and when has this “House of the Lord” been established ?

House/Temple = God's arrangement for pure worship: under the Jewish system worship was centred at a literal house, namely Gods temple in Jerusalem. Pure worship however today is centered around a spiritual house, namely Gods arrangement for worship. The Holy (the most sacred part of the temple) is heaven. The High Priest, Jesus. The sacrifices replaced with the one perfect sacrifice of his human life, the priests the born again Christians, the courtyard , worshippers while on earth.. ect. Please read Paul's exposee in the book of Hebrews chapter 9 & 10 for a more detailed explanation.

That house (temple) was established in 33 CE

Also where is the “Zion” located where the Lord will teach his law?

Zion here does not refer to the literal mountain in the State of Israel but to heaven itself. It is from there that the divine law as found in the bible originates.

Also what or when will the Lord speak his word from Jerusalem?

Jerusalem here doesnt refer to the literal city which was in ancient times was jndeed the center of pure worship and the seat of government for the kingdom of Israel; today it is "heavenly Jerusaem". Heavenly Jerusalem refers to the 144,000 resurrected born again Christians. Under Jesus headship these ones make up the Messianic kingdom.

ISAIAH 2:3
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

EZEKIEL 38:8

"collected together out of many peoples onto the mountains of Israel"

What does God speak? God speaks in that e reveals progressively clearer understanding of his word the bible to his people on earth that have come to his mountain to worship .

The prophecies have their mainfulfillment "during the last days" which began in 1914.





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[Revelations won]

Dear Tcg,

You said: “If on the other hand you marry a woman like Eve who leads you to sin, both you and all your offspring for all eternity will suffer. At least this would be the case if the tale is true. Well... if it is true and if God expects one to pay for all eternity for the mistakes made in one's youth.”

I do not pretend to know your basis for your expressed views.

Perhaps we should examine The Genesis account more carefully.

Do we remember that in Genesis 1:31 that we are taught that ALL things that were created were “VERY GOOD” and this included the “tree of life and “the of knowledge of good and evil”?

Do we remember that in Genesis chapter one that all things were created spiritually before they were created naturally upon the earth?

Do we remember that according to Genesis chapter2 that there was then created naturally every plant of the field etc. for the Lord God had not yet caused it to rain upon the earth?

Do we remember in Chapter2 that the the Lord then formed man?

Do we remember that the Lord God then planted a garden eastward in Eden and placed the man in the garden?

Do we remember that the Lord then gave instructions to Adam Regarding the “tree of knowledge of good and evil”

Do we remember that Adam was alone at that time and that the Lord then told Adam that he would make an help meet for him?

Do we remember that since Eve was not present, that it is very possible that Adam, having no knowledge of good or evil, may have overlooked teaching Eve the Lord’s instructions regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Do we remember likewise that Eve having no knowledge of good and evil
May have, in her innocence have eaten of the fruit because “her eyes were not yet opened” to understanding of the concept of good or evil?

Have we considered the difficult choice Adam had to make when he knew that Eve would have been cast out of the garden and he would be left a lone man in the garden?

Do we remember that he understood that he must leave “Father and Mother” and cleave unto his wife?

Do you think that after much soul searching that he finally understood that it was best for him to choose to follow Eve so that they could multiply and replenish the earth?

Have you ever considered that if they had not made the correct choices, that they would have made God a liar?

How so?

Have you ever considered that if they had made the wrong choice ,that Christ, who was verily foreordained before the foundations of the world were even laid could not have performed his foreordained mission as our savior and redeemer of all mankind?

Having considered the foregoing, do you think we should be very, Very careful to not judge Eve or Adam for their use of agency which brought0 forth this mortal time of probation wherein we could learn by our own experiences to learn to choose good over evil?

Have you ever pondered and given careful consideration that their choices allowed the fulfillment of our saviors mission to provide the atonement and resurrection for all mankind?
Have, according to the Bible, the choices of Adam or Eve ever prevented anyone from exercising their God given agency from receiving salvation according to the divine gospel plan?

Kind regards,
RW

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

You said: “You have a good comprehension of many things. Yes, Adam and Eve would've been married for all time....eternity. I ask you, without a condescedning attitude, is that a problem?”

Myresponse:

No, I do not see this as a problem at all. I would , however ask, who in our time is teaching this doctrine of marriage for time and all eternity?

Who has been given the keys to perform this eternal union between a man and his wife?

Would this mean a perpetuation of their seeds forever and ever?

What is your take on this eternal marriage concept?

Kind regards,
RW

[Revelations won]

Dear JW,

You posted:

Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:19 am

I have a few questions that apply to the forthcoming restoration of the earth to it’s paradisical condition that existed before “the fall”.

There are some great events that need to happen before this condition of the earth’s restoration. For example, consider the following:

1. Both Isaiah and Micah prophesied the following:

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Also see Micah 4:1-4

This passage isnt speaking about a literal mountain changing its height but rather about the elevation of pure worship. The true religion in the past was that centered on the Jewish temple system but that is no longer the case and never will be again. Thus Isaiah (and Micah) prophecies apply in their greatest sense to the elevation in size and quality of pure worship as practices by the true Christian organization. It has we believe been fulfillment since 1919 onward.


Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:19 am

Where and when has this “House of the Lord” been established ?

House/Temple = God's arrangement for pure worship: under the Jewish system worship was centred at a literal house, namely Gods temple in Jerusalem. Pure worship however today is centered around a spiritual house, nameky Gods arrangement for worship. The Holy (the most sacred part of the temple) is heaven. The High Priest, Jesus. The sacrifices replaced with the one perfect sacrifice of his human life, the priests the born again Christians, the courtyard , worshippers while on earth.. ect.


My response: You stated: “House/Temple = God's arrangement for pure worship: under the Jewish system worship was centred at a literal house, namely Gods temple in Jerusalem.”

You also stated: “The Holy (the most sacred part of the temple) is heaven.”

May I kindly remind you that the most sacred part of God’s temple is “The Holy of Holies” according to the Bible. You have presented your own private interpretation regarding the temple, but I rather think that many of our great Jewish brethren would agree with that spoken on this matter as presented in the Tanakh and the Bible.


Please read Paul's exposee in the book of Hebrews for a more detailed explanation.

Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:19 am

Also where is the “Zion” located where the Lord will teach his law?

Also what or when will the Lord speak his word from Jerusalem?

Zion here does not refer to the literal mountain in the State of Israel but to heaven itself. It is from there that the divine law as found in the bible originates.


My response: I NEVER said that the Zion I referred to was located on any mountain in the State of Israel. That is simply your private interpretation.

You also said: “The true religion in the past was that centered on the Jewish temple system but that is no longer the case and never will be again.”

I and a lot of our brethren of the tribe of Judah may respectfully disagree with you on this point.

May I remind you that the temple was STILL the most holy place of worship in Christ’s day and also that after the that temple was destroyed we find according to Revelations 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

May I also remind you that there will yet be built a mighty holy temple to be built in Jerusalem by our Jewish friends. This will be built with all features including the “Holy of Holies” as in former dispensations.

Also according to the prophet Daniel ” Can you show exactly What God did in 1919” and how this kingdom you claim was set up by him on that date?
It might be interesting to learn how this “new revelation” WAS RECEIVED AND BY WHOM AND HOW THIS KINGDOM IS GOVERNED IT,S LAWS AND BY WHOM?

Kind regards,
RW