The Great Image of Daniel chapter 2

[onewithhim]

Daniel's chapter about the great image (chapter 2) is very significant within any discussion of the end times and when God's Kingdom comes (Matt.6:9,10). After perusing this chapter, and perhaps viewing this image on other websites, what is your understanding of the meaning of this image and its being hit by a rock from the mountain?

[Revelations won]

Dear JW and IAMinyou,

I did respond to both of you, but it appears that both are able to respond and answer my questions. The interpretation of Daniel's dream was given by revelation. Your interpretation of Daniel's dream is given without revelation and is therefore the answers given are of your own conclusions.

I trust you have clear answers to my questions that I asked of you in this debate.

Kind regards,
RW

[JehovahsWitness]

This great image represents the kingdoms of this world...

If by "kingdoms of this world" you mean the political power or this world, this is true.
JW

That I did not mean.

Then I did not understand your answer. Do you believe Babylon the Great of Revelation 17 is a ...

a) political entity
b) religious entity
c) commercial entity
d) military entity
e) combination of one or more of the above
...
f) OTHER (please explain)

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #42]

JW, are you not confusing the Beast with the woman who rides the beast? One a world ruling empire, the other, the woman, or church, who masters it?

Soj

[JehovahsWitness]

JW, are you not confusing the Beast with the woman who rides the beast? One a world ruling empire, the other, the woman, or church, who masters it?

No I am not. I dont know how you would get that impression especialy as I have not stated in this thread what I believe Babylon The Great to be. Like you I simply pointed out that she cannot symbolise a political entity since she is depicted as having relations with a political entity (the "the kings of the earth" )

... "Babylon the Great" of Revelatin 17 is not a political power since the political powers ("the kings or the earth") commit sexual immorality with her.





Who or what is Babylon the Great?
viewtopic.php?p=917185#p917185

Who do the "two witnesses" of Revelation chanter 11 represent?
viewtopic.php?p=1021948#p1021948

To learn more please go to other posts related to

THE LAST DAYS , .THE SECOND COMING * and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION

*The Return of Christ

JW

[Checkpoint]

This great image represents the kingdoms of this world...

If by "kingdoms of this world" you mean the political power or this world, this is true.
JW

That I did not mean.

Then I did not understand your answer. Do you believe Babylon the Great of Revelation 17 is a ...

a) political entity
b) religious entity
c) commercial entity
d) military entity
e) combination of one or more of the above
...
f) OTHER (please explain)
JW

f) OTHER

18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

15 Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #44]

JW wrote:
No I am not. I dont know how you would get that impression especialy as I have not stated in this thread what I believe Babylon The Great to be. Like you I simply pointed out that she cannot symbolise a political entity since she is depicted as having relations with a political entity (the "the kings of the earth" )

Babylon, or the Beast power is not the Woman who rides the Beast. Israel was accused by God of exactly that. Taking lovers and committing adultery by appealing to the nations for protection and trade, commerce and tourism and all the while, casting aside the laws and ways of God to pursue treaties and deals with the nations of the world rather than rely on their God. The woman that rides the Beast, is a political entity, is a religious system that rides or masters the Beast system.

Deuteronomy 12:28-32 KJV  Observe and hear all these words which I command thee, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee for ever, when thou doest that which is good and right in the sight of the LORD thy God.  (29)  When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;  (30)  Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. (Sunday worship, Ishtaar, Saternailia, Eros day) (31)  Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.  (32)  What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Jeremiah 30:10-14 KJV  Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.  (11)  For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.  (12)  For thus saith the LORD, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.  (13)  There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.  (14)  All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.

Soj

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #23]

Thus, the Anglo-American world power came into existence as the 7th world power of Nebuchadnezzar's dream.

Oh?

Daniel 2:

40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom,

43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.
44 In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed

45b The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

What do you have to say, onewithhim?

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #7]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1]

The Bible pursues the progressions of 2 rulers and 2 cities from their origin to beyond the end of this age. One ruler sets up a city, with the intent that it cannot be conquered by God. He calls it Babylon. It is begun by Nimrod but carried thru time as a series of world ruling empires that rise and fall. It is led by men who seek to impose government outside of the rule of God. The other ruler, Abraham seeks out a city whose builder and maker is God. No one called of God, can enter into the Kingdom of God unless he is of the lineage of Abraham, either by birth or by being grafted into his family tree.

The Great Image of Nebuchadnezzar, pictures the great cities and rulers of this world, led by mankind, their rise and their fall, over the course of millennia, through the annuls of time, into this end time, with one last rise of Babylon. The stone cut out without hands, is the Rock of Israel and that Rock was Christ. He allotted mankind 6000 years of self rule. At the end of that time, the Earth will take its Sabbath rest from the rule of men, who murder, lie, cheat, connive and who do not look to God, to be replaced with a rule of God and Christ and those saints called to rule with Him.

It will be a government no longer of men who die, who kill, who destroy and seek what they can get, but a government of God based on love and law and not on bribes and favors. A government of peace and plenty, where your work achieves what you intend to accomplish and your teachers will not be hidden from your eyes when you veer off the path, but a voice will say in your ear, "this is the way you should go, go that way." And at the end of that Sabbath Rest, God will judge all mankind that ever lived, and give them the chance to know the Lord, from the small to the great, everyone will know. And their judgment will be over a lifetime, where they can learn to live by every word of God.

Soj

Checkpoint wrote:
Many stories that together make an interesting tale that does ring a few bells.

But an essential ingredient is missing.

That is, what God says about all this, and what He leaves unsaid.

If you can, Soj, please make known to us the missing ingredient, from the written Word of God.

So, it greatly increases the word count... I actually left out many, many, many verses. I didn't say anything above that there are not numerous scriptures verifying all that I said... but no one will read it... its too long and too intricate. But since you asked, I will, for sake of brevity, post this.

The Bible pursues the progressions of 2 rulers and 2 cities from their origin to beyond the end of this age. One ruler sets up a city, with the intent that it cannot be conquered by God. He calls it Babylon. (Gen 10 & 11) It is begun by Nimrod but carried thru time as a series of world ruling empires that rise and fall. It is led by men who seek to impose government outside of the rule of God, (Gen 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth) in fact, in defiance of God. The other ruler, Abraham, (Gen 14) met with Melkisadek, the King of Peace, gave tithes of all he had and seeks out a city whose builder and maker is God. (Heb. 11:10) No one called of God, can enter into the Kingdom of God unless he is of the lineage of Abraham, (Rom 9 & 11) either by birth or by being grafted into his family tree. Both empires are introduced in Genesis and the fall of one, Babylon, will be destroyed (Dan 2:34-35 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. (35) Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth), and (Babylon) become the home of demons and foul spirits (Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird) and the dominance of the other are established into the ages of time (Rev_11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever).

The Great Image of Nebuchadnezzar, pictures the great cities and world ruling empires of this world, led by mankind, their rise and their fall, over the course of millennia, through the annuls of time, into this end time, with one last rise of Babylon. The stone cut out without hands, (Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure) is the Rock of Israel (2Sa 23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God) and that Rock was Christ (1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ). He allotted mankind 6000 years of self-rule. (Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.; 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day). At the end of that time, the Earth will take its Sabbath rest (Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing), freed from the rule of men, who murder, lie, cheat, connive and who do not look to God, to be replaced with a rule of God and Christ and those saints called to rule with Him.( Jer 50:34 Their Redeemer is strong; the LORD of hosts is his name: he shall throughly plead their cause, that he may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon)

It will be a government no longer of men (Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever) who die, who kill, who destroy and seek what they can get, but a government of God based on love and law and not on bribes and favors. A government of peace and plenty, where your work achieves what you intend to accomplish (Mic 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it) and your teachers will not be hidden from your eyes when you veer off the path, but a voice will say in your ear, "this is the way you should go, go that way. (Isa 30:20-21 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers: (21) And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left) " And at the end of that Sabbath Rest, God will judge all mankind that ever lived, and give them the chance to know the Lord, from the small to the great, everyone will know (Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Isa_65:20). And their judgment will be over a lifetime, where they can learn to live by every word of God (Isa 43:8-26 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. (9) Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. (10) Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. (11) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. (12) I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. (13) Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? (14) Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships. (15) I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King. (16) Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters; (17) Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow. (18) Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. (19) Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. (20) The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. (21) This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise. (22) But thou hast not called upon me, O Jacob; but thou hast been weary of me, O Israel. (23) Thou hast not brought me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings; neither hast thou honoured me with thy sacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve with an offering, nor wearied thee with incense. (24) Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins, thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities. (25) I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. (26) Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed; Eze 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves).

Soj

[JehovahsWitness]

you believe Babylon the Great of Revelation 17 is a ...

f) OTHER ... "18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth".

So (correct me le I am mistaken), you believe Babylon the Great of Revelation 17 is... a great city.

My questions for you are as follows

• Do you believe it is a literal city, if so which literal city? New York, Dubaï? Brisbane?

OR

• Do you believe Babylon the Great of Revelation 17 is a symbolic city? , if so what does "the Great city" symbolise?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #23]

Thus, the Anglo-American world power came into existence as the 7th world power of Nebuchadnezzar's dream.

Oh?

Daniel 2:

40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom,

...

The image of Daniel 2 starts at the third world power(Babylon); Revelation starts at the first (Egypt). So Daniel's forth (Rome) equals Revelation's 6th . The feet (Iron and clay) represent Revelation's seventh world power (The anglo-american world power).




Its Daniel's dream of Revelation 7 that picks up the sequence thereafter...


GLOSSARY OF TERMS [END TIMES]




JEHOVAHS WITNESS








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DANIEL'S PROPHECIES , .THE SECOND COMING * and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION [/quote]*The Return of Christ