You MUST be born again

[Checkpoint]

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?

[myth-one.com]

Yes, they do die.

Concerning the first death, does that mean they no longer exist?

I ask the same question concerning the Second Death.

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

The Bible describes physical and spiritual forms of life. Spiritual beings consist of God and the angels. Every other life form is physical. All physical life forms share one very important characteristic. All die!

In fact, this is the one remaining characteristic which distinguishes man from spiritual beings. Spiritual life forms live for eternity, while all physical beings will die.

====================================================

Two "deaths" are defined in the scriptures -- the first and the second.

The first death is appointed unto all mankind:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

Likewise, all mankind will be resurrected back to life.

But if true death is final, then our first death is not death at all, as it does not meet the definition of death. That is, it is not permanent.

Consequently, when the first death of any man is discussed in the Bible, the words used to describe that event are oftentimes sleep or rest. Only man, among all the animals is said to sleep, slumber, or rest when he "dies". In fact, when Jesus raised people from the dead, He often stated that they were not dead, but simply asleep.

So concerning the first death, all "dead" humans (believers and nonbelievers) are simply resting and awaiting their resurrection. They know nothing during this period of rest, but they exist in this "resting" phase and will all exist alive again at their resurrection.

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Christianity divides mankind into two groups, believers and nonbelievers.

All deceased believers will be resurrected to everlasting life at the Second Coming. Believers living at the time of the Second Coming will be "changed" or born again as spiritual beings at that same time.

All of these will then spend the millennium day of rest with the Word.

Following the 1,000 year millennium, the rest of the dead (all nonbelievers) will be resurrected with physical bodies once again, and face judgment.

Following their judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire and quickly suffer what is call their "second death."

They die because they are physical beings which perish.

There is no resurrection from the second death -- it is final and everlasting. It is a true death -- the wages for their sins. It is not described as sleep, slumber, or rest.

And they will never exist again -- by their own choice.

==================================================

While that sounds harsh, it is actually evidence that God is Love.

Believers have their names written in the Book of Life. And all believers (those dead and alive) were born again into the spiritual Kingdom of God at the Second Coming. So the Book of Life had been cleared.

A thousand years after the Second Coming, the rest of the dead are resurrected. The rest of the dead are nonbelievers, as all believers have received their rewards already at the Second Coming.

So why is the Book of Life checked again following judgment of the unsaved?

If the nonbelievers are being resurrected to be humiliated by judgment before being killed a second time, why not simply allow them to remain dead? This seems to be in opposition to God being loving.

===================================================

Billions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity! The majority of all people who have ever lived have never, ever, heard the true message of the Holy Scriptures, even in the United States.

At this time these people will hear the true good news of the gospel for the first time from angels, including Christians born again as spirits in the first resurrection, with Satan and all of his myths and lies totally defeated. Most people have never been given a choice based on Biblical truth! Their choice was based on myths and fear -- due to the failure of the church. Those times will be over!

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

If the Book of Life was cleared before judgment, and is rechecked after judgment, then it was changed during judgment.

The implication is that those judged are confronted with their sins, taught the true good news, and allowed to make their personal informed decisions regarding repentance and acceptance of Jesus as their Savior at that time! When they do so, their names are written into the Book of Life.

That is why the book is checked again!

While rejecting everlasting life may seem totally unacceptable to many of us, who are we to say that it is not the appropriate choice for others? Everlasting can be a scary commitment.

God will honor either choice. There will be no further finite trial periods.

==============================================

Death is simply the exit door for those deciding not to participate in everlasting life. And the only true death is the second death.

Once one accepts everlasting life, there is no longer any way to end that life! Consequently, the wages for sin within the spiritual world become infinitely more harsh.

The devil, for example, is destined to "be tormented day and night for ever and ever" for his rebellion against God.

Man is given a taste of life, and must then choose whether or not to extend that life from finite to everlasting.

Man exists because angels assigned to care for the earth abandoned their assignment and revolted. Man is being trained and groomed to replace these original angels.

Having been given a taste of earthly life, and being allowed to choose whether or not we desire to participate in everlasting life, these new spirits being produced to replenish the earth should be less inclined to revolt.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #32]

Billions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity! The majority of all people who have ever lived have never, ever, heard the true message of the Holy Scriptures, even in the United States.

At this time these people will hear the true good news of the gospel for the first time from angels, including Christians born again as spirits in the first resurrection, with Satan and all of his myths and lies totally defeated. Most people have never been given a choice based on Biblical truth! Their choice was based on myths and fear -- due to the failure of the church. Those times will be over!

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

If the Book of Life was cleared before judgment, and is rechecked after judgment, then it was changed during judgment.

The implication is that those judged are confronted with their sins, taught the true good news, and allowed to make their personal informed decisions regarding repentance and acceptance of Jesus as their Savior at that time! When they do so, their names are written into the Book of Life.

That is why the book is checked again!

While rejecting everlasting life may seem totally unacceptable to many of us, who are we to say that it is not the appropriate choice for others? Everlasting can be a scary commitment.

God will honor either choice. There will be no further finite trial periods.

An interesting view, which is not actually found in Revelation 20, or anywhere else in the Bible.

What we wish, or what we think is fair and just, does not make it so.

Let's start again from where you finish.

There will be no further finite trial periods.

This period we are now in is the last one. It will be ended at the last trump by the return of Jesus Anointed and the final judgment on the last day.

That is when "the end shall come", Matthew 24:14.

Further, your "If" implication has no basis. It reads:

If the Book of Life was cleared before judgment, and is rechecked after judgment, then it was changed during judgment.

So, what if it wasn't?

It doesn't say any of those things in Revelation 20:11-15.

In this case, in view of this, perhaps you could manage to apply what you wrote:

While rejecting everlasting life may seem totally unacceptable to many of us, who are we to say that it is not the appropriate choice for others?

[myth-one.com]

Billions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

"Many" is greater than "few."

And Jesus did not exist until about 2020 years ago.

An interesting view, which is not actually found in Revelation 20, or anywhere else in the Bible.

Why do you believe that statement to be not supported by the Bible?

[Checkpoint]

Billions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

"Many" is greater than "few."

And Jesus did not exist until about 2020 years ago.

An interesting view, which is not actually found in Revelation 20, or anywhere else in the Bible.

Why do you believe that statement to be not supported by the Bible?

My statement referred to what you wrote that is quoted in my post #34.

You believe what you claim is supported by the Bible?

If so, please now present your scriptural evidence, chapter and verse.

[myth-one.com]

Billions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

"Many" is greater than "few."

And Jesus did not exist until about 2020 years ago.

An interesting view, which is not actually found in Revelation 20, or anywhere else in the Bible.

Why do you believe that statement to be not supported by the Bible?

My statement referred to what you wrote that is quoted in my post #34.

You believe what you claim is supported by the Bible?

If so, please now present your scriptural evidence, chapter and verse.

So in your Post #34, you're questioning my response to your Post #34?

How does that work?

[Checkpoint]

Billions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

"Many" is greater than "few."

And Jesus did not exist until about 2020 years ago.

An interesting view, which is not actually found in Revelation 20, or anywhere else in the Bible.

Why do you believe that statement to be not supported by the Bible?

My statement referred to what you wrote that is quoted in my post #34.

You believe what you claim is supported by the Bible?

If so, please now present your scriptural evidence, chapter and verse.

So in your Post #34, you're questioning my response to your Post #34?

How does that work?

In post #34 I am questioning what I quoted in post #32 that you wrote in post #31, and your response to that in post #35.


It works when you accept my post #34 challenge and supply your evidence.

[myth-one.com]

In post #34 I am questioning what I quoted in post #32 that you wrote in post #31, and your response to that in post #35.

It works when you accept my post #34 challenge and supply your evidence.

The only question I can find in Post #34 is:

You believe what you claim is supported by the Bible?

My answer is yes.

[Checkpoint]

In post #34 I am questioning what I quoted in post #32 that you wrote in post #31, and your response to that in post #35.

It works when you accept my post #34 challenge and supply your evidence.

The only question I can find in Post #34 is:

You believe what you claim is supported by the Bible?

My answer is yes.

That being so, I now repeat what I asked, and quote the relevant part of your own post you will now be able to substantiate in plain language in selected verses of your choice.

Checkpoint wrote:

In post #34 I am questioning what I quoted in post #32 that you wrote in post #31, and your response to that in post #35.

It works when you accept my post #34 challenge and supply your evidence.

myth-one wrote, in post #31:

If the Book of Life was cleared before judgment, and is rechecked after judgment, then it was changed during judgment.

The implication is that those judged are confronted with their sins, taught the true good news, and allowed to make their personal informed decisions regarding repentance and acceptance of Jesus as their Savior at that time! When they do so, their names are written into the Book of Life.

[myth-one.com]

You believe what you claim is supported by the Bible?

Yes.

That being so, I now repeat what I asked, and quote the relevant part of your own post you will now be able to substantiate in plain language in selected verses of your choice.

Thanks.

True Christian theology will be supported by the Holy Bible.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (II Timothy 3:16)

Theology which cannot be supported by the Bible is simple some man's opinions or private interpretations.

The Bible states that every human ever born and died shall be resurrected:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

All mankind are like the first man Adam in that all die. Likewise, every human who ever died shall be resurrected or made alive again. But there will be an order to the resurrections. Jesus will be resurrected first -- and that has already occurred:

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. (I Corinthians 15:20)

The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians. This resurrection for all Christians occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming." The Second Coming is described in Revelation chapter nineteen:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Revelation 19:11-13)

At that same time, Christians who are alive on the earth when Jesus returns will be born again as spirits and meet Him in the air:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

At this point after the first resurrection, all Christians (dead or alive) have been born again as spiritual beings. They will then enjoy the millennium with Jesus:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

After the millennium, all dead nonbelievers are resurrected from their graves:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (Revelation 20:4)

They then face judgment:

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)

After the judgment of those resurrected in the second resurrection (nonbelievers), whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Be aware that absolutely none of those resurrected at the second resurrection had their names written in the book of life when resurrected! Every single human, dead or alive, with their names written in the book of life (believers) were born again into everlasting spiritual life at the first resurrection! So why are they checking the book again? Something obviously occurred since these nonbelievers were resurrected to cause the book of life to be modified. Otherwise, there would be no reason to check the book again for their names. What happened?

Nonbelievers resurrected to mortal life at the second resurrection will make their choice after understanding what the two possible choices are. If they were not given a choice on earth prior to their death, they will be given their choice after their resurrection as mortal humans in the second resurrection. From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

Their choice will be based on being preached the true gospel message for the first time. It will be preached at this time in the entire world, before the end of the age of man can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

All dead and living Christians were born again as spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming. And there is no reason to believe that anyone will become a believer during the 1000 year millennium, as they have no preachers:

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:14)

So the Book of life has been cleared. All inheritors have received their rewards. And after the 1000 year Millennium, the second resurrection for mankind occurs:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (Revelation 20:4)

Everyone raised in this second resurrection will face the great white throne judgment as all have sinned and are all headed for the second death.

The judgment will hold them responsible for their behavior as humans and some may see that God's plan for them was better than their way of life.

Satan is locked away during this time, the scriptures are unsealed, and these nonbelievers are explained the true good news of the scriptures.

Following this process, the Book of Life is checked again.

Why check the book if there were no names in it prior to the second resurrection, and everyone resurrected at the second resurrection was headed for the second death?

Would God raise these people again as physical bodies only to humiliate them during their judgment before casting them into the lake of fire? Why bother raising them from the dead only to inflict another painful physical death upon them? This flies in the face of "God is love." If the nonbelievers are being resurrected to be humiliated by judgment before being killed a second time, why not simply allow them to remain dead?

Of course, God is love, and He is raising the nonbelievers for a reason! One event prophesied to occur before the end of time is that the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world.

Billions or trillions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity! The majority of all people who have ever lived have never, ever, heard the true message of the Holy Scriptures, even in the United States. Remember that the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time! At this time these people will hear the true message for the first time from angels, including Christians born again as spirits in the first resurrection, with Satan and all of his myths and lies totally defeated. Most people have never been given a choice based on Biblical truth! Their choice was based on myths and fear.

Those times will be over!

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

If the Book of Life was cleared before judgment, and is rechecked after judgment, then it was changed during judgment.

The implication is that those judged are confronted with their sins, taught the true good news, and allowed to make their personal informed decisions regarding repentance and acceptance of Jesus as their Savior at that time! When they do so, their names are written into the Book of Life.

===================================================

The Bible contains two testaments or covenants between God and mankind.

In these covenants, God explains what man must do to obtain everlasting spiritual, and become equal unto the angels:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deuteronomy 30:19)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

The Bible describes God as "Just and true":

Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. (Revelation 15:3)

The odds are that there is at least one human who has lived and died his first death without having any knowledge of these covenants which applied to him.

If this man suffers his second death without the good news of the gospel ever being explained to him, and his being able to make an informed free choice decision concerning his eternity -- then is that just and true?

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

I believe this verse means that the good news of salvation must be preached to every human before the age of man ends.

If so, the only time for many nonbelievers to hear the good news of the gospel will be after their resurrection a thousand years after the Second Coming!

If they choose to accept Jesus as their Savior at that time, their names will be written into the Book of Life at that time.

That is why the book is checked again after being cleared at the Second Coming.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #40]

True Christian theology will be supported by the Holy Bible.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (II Timothy 3:16)

Theology which cannot be supported by the Bible is simple some man's opinions or private interpretations.

The Bible has been and is used to "support" opposing views. For example, as to what death is, what "hell" is, and whether God is or is not a Trinity.

You and I have opposing views on a matter. You claim support for it in the Bible, whereas I claim it has no support in the Bible.

This is what you claim:

One event prophesied to occur before the end of time is that the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world.

Billions or trillions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity! The majority of all people who have ever lived have never, ever, heard the true message of the Holy Scriptures, even in the United States. Remember that the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time! At this time these people will hear the true message for the first time from angels, including Christians born again as spirits in the first resurrection, with Satan and all of his myths and lies totally defeated. Most people have never been given a choice based on Biblical truth! Their choice was based on myths and fear.

Those times will be over!

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

If the Book of Life was cleared before judgment, and is rechecked after judgment, then it was changed during judgment.

The implication is that those judged are confronted with their sins, taught the true good news, and allowed to make their personal informed decisions regarding repentance and acceptance of Jesus as their Savior at that time! When they do so, their names are written into the Book of Life.

{b]This was my last response:[/b]

you will now be able to substantiate in plain language in selected verses of your choice.

You have written at some length, but I still claim you have been unable to substantiate your view.

You think you have, of course. But instead, sadly, you have either misapplied some verses and/or added to others. That is eisegesis(reading into), not exegesis(drawing out from) Scripture.

Here is a prime example: Matthew 24:14, which you quoted.

In this verse Jesus says the gospel will be proclaimed to all nations as a witness, and then the end shall come.

He does not here specify what He means by "the end", or when that will be or what will happen then.

But he does those things in Matthew 13; especially verses 39 and 40, which read:(in their context):

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

What Jesus calls "the harvest" here, is usually called "the Judgment", which occurs when Jesus returns, beginning with "a resurrection, of both the just and unjust"; Acts 24:15; John 5:28-29.

One resurrection, and one Judgment, "the Judgment"; Hebrews 9:27, not two or more.

Furthermore, the judgment and resurrection are brief events, not time periods. They are not an opportunity for any human to make or change a decision.

God has already made His position very clear:

Acts 17:
30 "In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now He commands all people everywhere to repent.
31 For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Revelation 22:17

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!”
And let the one who hears say, “Come!”
Let the one who is thirsty come;
and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.