Eternal Hell: Yes or No

[nobspeople]

When I joined this site, I (erroneously) assumed a Christian (by popular definition) believes in Eternal Hell damnation no matter the denomination or lack there of.
That doesn't seem to be the case with some of you (some believe it to be a temporary punishment, or not at all, etc). So I ask:

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

If you do, who goes there?
Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

If you don't believe, why not?

What brings you to that conclusion?

[William]

[Replying to tam in post #41]

I do not know what you mean when you say 'the church', but I assume you mean the religion that calls itself "Christianity" (with its many sects and denominations)? I am not a slave to that, or even a part of that. I do not know what stories you are referring to that I am supposed to be accepting without evidence, so I cannot respond to your 'double standard' question.

Such contradiction as this I have come to expect from those claiming to be 'The Lords"....they have yet to give good reason as to why I should believe their claims as the truth of the matter. You are no exception to this Tam. To say that it is not the bible that you follow after while at the same time use that very bible (created by the church you claim not to follow) in order to back up your beliefs is the kind of response one can expect from the self deceived and I am presently unconvinced that you are not deceiving yourself through acceptance of that which "Christianity" has been using to deceive the world.

You were asked to provide some examples [other than through biblical mythology] of how your lord communes with you and clearly all you have done is resort to those stories as the means through which you receive your instruction [that which you refer to as 'the truth'] and in that, you have used those stories you believe to being truth, to imply that my own understanding must therefore have its source in 'lying spirits'.

I have looked at the link you provide [viewtopic.php?p=738377#p738377]as a type of testimony from you re how your lord speaks to you and within that is the idea that you hear his voice but how do you know that what you are hearing is his voice or true? You answer this by saying that you can test it, but you don't explain in any detail, how this testing is done.

My reply to your testimony [Link]

[William]

While Tam sorts her story out, I will continue with my own.

The understanding of 'many rooms' [or mansions] in "The Fathers House" is related to an individuals personal beliefs and attitudes [PBA] and the properties of said 'rooms' are such that the engage with the individuals PBA and in doing so, the person creates their own reality experience. This happens as the individual transitions from one reality experience [the physical universe] to the next ["afterlife" reality experience].

One does not have to think out of the box to realize that for some individuals, hells will be created as a consequence of this engagement - this interaction between individual personality and 'spirit'.

As I have also mentioned, these 'rooms' which are 'prepared' are only part of The Fathers House - itself a part of The Fathers Kingdom - but rest assured- the house is merely a tiny part of the Kingdom, and has been set up for such purpose as dealing with individuals who are yet unaware of the greater reality of The Fathers Kingdom - and can only handle being confined to their own rooms.

As I understand the process, it is not meant to house said individuals permanently [eternally] but that does no mean they cannot be used for such purpose...

Over and above all the rooms are those who monitor what goes on is said rooms - looking for opportunity to present itself whereby they might enter said rooms and engage with the rooms creators, in order to try and bring the individuals to a greater understanding of the greater reality said individuals know nothing about.

For if they did not attempt to do this thing, how will the individual who created their experience in the room, ever know that what they are experiencing is of their own making and therefore they can change what they are experiencing using the properties of said room in a different way than they have been doing?

So yes. As much as hell of any sort being suffered forever is a terrible concept to believe exists, one can see the sense in it if one is understanding the Justice behind it...and what it is that drives that sense of Justice to make it that way - as something which can be experienced as real.

For my part, I prefer the serene surrounds at The Hub of The Hologram Dimensions, and consider the Realm of Judgement [enclosed by The Twelve Judges Mountain Range] to being specifically designed for those who still need a room.

But I do keep an ear in, as it were...that is because I would love for individuals to leave their rooms and exit The Fathers House in order to enter The Fathers Kingdom...so listening out for any trace of them is just second nature....



Post#5

[tam]

[Replying to William in post #42]

Peace to you William,

As you did not respond to much that was presented or asked in my previous post, I do not see that there is much to add. So I am content to let my previous post stand.

[William]

[Replying to William in post #42]

Peace to you William,

As you did not respond to much that was presented or asked in my previous post, I do not see that there is much to add. So I am content to let my previous post stand.

Check again Tam - I certainly did respond to your post...[link]

I also responded to another post you made on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 8:24 pm Titled "Does Christ speak and how?" so perhaps you might like to get honest with us and answer in turn, rather than hand wave me away as if my responses don't matter enough to you to even acknowledge honestly that I have - indeed - actually responded to your post(s).

[tam]

Peace still to you,

[Replying to William in post #42]

Peace to you William,

As you did not respond to much that was presented or asked in my previous post, I do not see that there is much to add. So I am content to let my previous post stand.

Check again Tam - I certainly did respond to your post...[link]

I also responded to another post you made on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 8:24 pm Titled "Does Christ speak and how?" so perhaps you might like to get honest with us and answer in turn, rather than hand wave me away as if my responses don't matter enough to you to even acknowledge honestly that I have - indeed - actually responded to your post(s).

I urge you to re-read the words that I actually said (and note that I was responding to your post #42).

"As you did not respond to much that was presented or asked in my previous post, I do not see that there is much to add. So I am content to let my previous post stand."

As to the rest, I am not "hand waving you away". I only just saw your other post. I will respond as I am able.

[William]

Peace still to you,

[Replying to William in post #42]

Peace to you William,

As you did not respond to much that was presented or asked in my previous post, I do not see that there is much to add. So I am content to let my previous post stand.

Check again Tam - I certainly did respond to your post...[link]

I also responded to another post you made on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 8:24 pm Titled "Does Christ speak and how?" so perhaps you might like to get honest with us and answer in turn, rather than hand wave me away as if my responses don't matter enough to you to even acknowledge honestly that I have - indeed - actually responded to your post(s).

I urge you to re-read the words that I actually said (and note that I was responding to your post #42).

"As you did not respond to much that was presented or asked in my previous post, I do not see that there is much to add. So I am content to let my previous post stand."

As to the rest, I am not "hand waving you away". I only just saw your other post. I will respond as I am able.

If you would be so kind then to at least respond to that which I did respond to, it would be appreciated...

as well as this, here is a link to a set of ongoing posts which delve further into what I have been saying about how we create our own realities to experience...

[Dimmesdale]

I would submit that Christianity is incoherent even if the Scriptural evidence proves that Hell exists.

This is because Hell would not get rid of the sin problem. In fact, it would perpetuate it forever and ever.

This is because those in hell are, per the classical understanding, bereft of all moral goodness and are even in their torments obstinately cursing God and His servants.

And yet, how could that be, if sin is supposedly to be done away with at the end of time? Creation would then not be fully perfected and restored in that case. There would still exist, in some corner of God's Creation, some pocket ("hell") where sin must necessarily co-exist. It may be "defeated" - it may be thwarted and impotent, but it still IS. There is some little hiss of blasphemy, that exists in hell and that attempts to (I would say in a limited sense succeeds) in marring God and the things of God. How could a Holy God everlastingly permit such blasphemy?

The only way for sin to be utterly stamped out is to do away with hate-filled sinners, and therefore hell.

[William]

I would submit that Christianity is incoherent even if the Scriptural evidence proves that Hell exists.

REgardless of the following stories which bind the mythology together, the very first story is so full of incoherent concepts that the incoherency of every story which follows is a natural outcome of that first story.

This is because Hell would not get rid of the sin problem. In fact, it would perpetuate it forever and ever.

Perhaps that is why some Christians have tried to argue that the idea of hell was added to the storyline and mention of it in the bible as an actual place that people can experience is an incorrect interpretation.

This is because those in hell are, per the classical understanding, bereft of all moral goodness and are even in their torments obstinately cursing God and His servants.

And yet, how could that be, if sin is supposedly to be done away with at the end of time? Creation would then not be fully perfected and restored in that case. There would still exist, in some corner of God's Creation, some pocket ("hell") where sin must necessarily co-exist. It may be "defeated" - it may be thwarted and impotent, but it still IS. There is some little hiss of blasphemy, that exists in hell and that attempts to (I would say in a limited sense succeeds) in marring God and the things of God. How could a Holy God everlastingly permit such blasphemy?

The only way for sin to be utterly stamped out is to do away with hate-filled sinners, and therefore hell.

The idea of god presented through the bible seems to have need of a kind of show and tell. Perhaps it is some kind of living museum which the god can point to and say "see - I told you so!" Like you say - it is incoherent.

The idea of blasphemy stems from religions which have deceptive mythologies designed to make the religions appear authoritative - lorded individuals speaking on behalf of their images of their preferred gods and so any critique of said images, is labeled "blasphemy".

[Dimmesdale]

REgardless of the following stories which bind the mythology together, the very first story is so full of incoherent concepts that the incoherency of every story which follows is a natural outcome of that first story.

Perhaps to some extent. I never understood how Adam and Eve could have sinned in the first place without knowledge of good and evil. But anyway, I think the Bible tries to understand life in general. And life in general in the first place is incredibly confusing. So an interpretation of it is likewise confused, usually.

Perhaps that is why some Christians have tried to argue that the idea of hell was added to the storyline and mention of it in the bible as an actual place that people can experience is an incorrect interpretation.

I would say it is because it is natural for the human mind to seek for some form of justice, whether here and now, or hereafter. But put two and two together and it doesn't fit. You can't have a 100% stainless Creation, AND have one little pocket of hell over there, somewhere, where sin still exists. That's not a perfect world.

The idea of god presented through the bible seems to have need of a kind of show and tell. Perhaps it is some kind of living museum which the god can point to and say "see - I told you so!" Like you say - it is incoherent.

The idea of blasphemy stems from religions which have deceptive mythologies designed to make the religions appear authoritative - lorded individuals speaking on behalf of their images of their preferred gods and so any critique of said images, is labeled "blasphemy".

If something is holy, it can be blasphemed. And vice versa I guess. Christianity takes itself too seriously, it's idea of Holiness is warped in my opinion. Some things that aren't holy Christians say are, and I think that is a problem.

[William]

REgardless of the following stories which bind the mythology together, the very first story is so full of incoherent concepts that the incoherency of every story which follows is a natural outcome of that first story.

Perhaps to some extent. I never understood how Adam and Eve could have sinned in the first place without knowledge of good and evil. But anyway, I think the Bible tries to understand life in general. And life in general in the first place is incredibly confusing. So an interpretation of it is likewise confused, usually.

"The Bible" is a series of interwoven stories uplifted from the firesides by different authors at different times - some who wrote better than others, but all leaving a great deal open to interpretation. This can only amount to confusion. The bible informs that 'god' is not a 'god of confusion' but the evidence clearly shows that Middle Eastern Mythologies create the confusion themselves. So the god of the bible IS a god of confusion, even that a contributing author claimed otherwise.

Although to be fair, one could suppose that the author did not expect his work to be included into a book created and published by the hand of Christendom, and may have been referring to a different idea of a god than the one Christendom created.

Perhaps that is why some Christians have tried to argue that the idea of hell was added to the storyline and mention of it in the bible as an actual place that people can experience is an incorrect interpretation.

I would say it is because it is natural for the human mind to seek for some form of justice, whether here and now, or hereafter. But put two and two together and it doesn't fit. You can't have a 100% stainless Creation, AND have one little pocket of hell over there, somewhere, where sin still exists. That's not a perfect world.

Then you must argue also, that this universe is not a perfect one, because Earth exists?

I agree that the idea of Heaven and Hell as places people are sent to are inventions of minds which require justice for which the systems of humanity do not always adequately deliver.
Also my studies over the years have lead me to see that the nature of experience does not [conclusively] end in our dying on this planet and the opinion I have therefore formed in relation to that, is that the nature of the next phase of our individual experience is designed for the purpose of our each having the gift of creation - of being able to create for ourselves, our own 'worlds' in which we will immediately begin to experience.

In that, whatever personality we each developed and nurtured in this current phase of experience, will be in control of creating for each of us, our next experience, and doing so immediately. So immediately in fact, that only those who are aware will be able to realize in that moment of transition, that they are creating their own reality...I can see a type of justice in relation to this idea.

In that sense, were there to exist heavens and hells individuals have created for themselves along with unrelated environments which others have created for themselves outside of those heaven/hell environments, then one would be able to observe those heaven/hell environments as being [altogether] contained within an area designated to that purpose.

But should those viewing the contained area as a whole [outside of it], see that area as a 'stain' on an otherwise stainless Creation?

This is why there exists within said greater reality [the stainless part] personalities who are dedicated to visiting the prisoners of heaven and hell and finding ways in which to convince the inmates to come and play in the real world.

That task in and of itself is huge and potentially one which could go on forever.

However, we on this side of that, could make their job easier IF we dropped some of our beliefs notions etc blah blah and became assured that when it is our time to die here, we will be destined to create for ourselves something other than a room to satisfy our lust for justice...for to harbor such lust, is to cast judgment on none other than our self.

So "stop judging" is selected as the better alternative.

The idea of god presented through the bible seems to have need of a kind of show and tell. Perhaps it is some kind of living museum which the god can point to and say "see - I told you so!" Like you say - it is incoherent.

The idea of blasphemy stems from religions which have deceptive mythologies designed to make the religions appear authoritative - lorded individuals speaking on behalf of their images of their preferred gods and so any critique of said images, is labeled "blasphemy".

If something is holy, it can be blasphemed. And vice versa I guess. Christianity takes itself too seriously, it's idea of Holiness is warped in my opinion. Some things that aren't holy Christians say are, and I think that is a problem.

I tend to agree with you there. Importantly "how to approach that?" Certainly we can make observation without judgment. If there is a 'problem' then we seek 'solution' and the Christian responds by 'resisting' that 'devil' yet - strangely for the Christian, that 'devil' does not 'flee'.

And so they ignore it instead....following the ancient superstitious type of adage "Ignore it and it will go away". Okay, that isn't exactly 'fleeing' but the results seem to be the same. Not all is as it appears to be.