What comes first, family or God?

[nobspeople]

The below link is lengthy (about 60 minutes), but speaks, in part, about how one's religious beliefs in a religion can cause families to fracture. We see this happen in families of no religion, Scientologists, Mormons, Catholics, JWs (as in this example) etc.
While this doesn't always happen, at what point does one (or should one) put their belief system before their family?
Does God command such a thing, or is it something the religion dictates only?

[Paul of Tarsus]

Most people would deny such charges if brought up against them. Within a religious system, those doing so show nothing but weak faith in their religion and god, IMO. If they're so right - so just - they'd stand with their decisions, no matter how distasteful it may be to others.

That's a very good point. Many people, even professing Christians like Jehovah's witnesses, tend to judge and defend God using human standards. They will tell you that God is good, but they mean God is good in the way our modern, secular society understands "good" to be. So whatever God is said to have done in Bible stories, for example, often needs to be defended and shown to be acceptable to modern people including unbelievers. But if God is real, then he can disregard what we think is right or wrong. So as you suggest, Jehovah's Witnesses might reply to the charges brought against them on this thread like this: "We don't care what you think. If we feel allegiance to Jehovah is being shirked by one of our members, then we will go right ahead and shun them ordering their families to shun them too."

You don't do that when you're fearful and doubtful, weak in your faith. What you DO do ( ) is deny deny deny, just like a less-than-honest politician.

Jehovah's Witnesses seem awfully fearful when charges are brought against them. You would think they wouldn't fear any human organization when they are "Jehovah's organization."

So what we have here is God comes before family with an aside that, with perhaps a few exceptions, Jehovah Witnesses act like Scientologists when it comes to cutting out family members that don't align with theirs.

Whenever I hear of the troubles Jehovah's Witnesses cause, I think the best course of action is not to get involved with them in the first place. That way you don't need to fear what they do to people who "apostacize."

In fairness, it's important to stress that Jehovah's Witnesses are not unique in their "group dynamics." Most people tend to reject those who will not or can not conform to what the group expects of its members. If you're different, then ostracism is often the consequence.

[JehovahsWitness]

As for personal testimonies, I dont see why anyone elses testimony should carry any more weight than my own, since I am one of Jehovahs Witnesses myself, and know the family history of hundreds of other Witnesses. .

Do you disagree with the man at the kingdom hall who told me that they will break up marriages?

I do believe I have already addressed that question.
viewtopic.php?p=1031559#p1031559



Jehovahs Witnesses are a family orientated religion that prohibits divorce except on grounds of adultery. Our organisation publishes an abundance ce of material to help build solid and happy marriages and we regularly study the subject in our Bible classes. Not all JWs marriages are successful of course but to suggest there is anything in the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses that is destructive to the institution they view as being an institution of divine origins is a gross misrepresentation of the truth.




JW



FURTHER READING : INDEX Watch Tower Publications Index 1986-2021: Marriage
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200273676

Official Website : FAMILY & MARRIAGE: https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/

To learn more please go to other posts related to...JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

FAMILY, MARRIAGE and ... DIVORCE

[Paul of Tarsus]

As for personal testimonies, I dont see why anyone elses testimony should carry any more weight than my own, since I am one of Jehovahs Witnesses myself, and know the family history of hundreds of other Witnesses. .

Do you disagree with the man at the kingdom hall who told me that they will break up marriages?

I do believe I have already addressed that question.
viewtopic.php?p=1031559#p1031559

I've already read what's on that link. It does not answer my question. Since you insist on dodging my question, I will answer it for you: Yes, you agree to break up marriages if a spouse appears to threaten Watchtower dogma in some way. Any consequent grief on the part of either spouse or other family member is merely "collateral damage."

Jehovahs Witnesses are a family orientated religion that prohibits divorce except on grounds of adultery. Our organisation publishes an abundance ce of material to help build solid and happy marriages and we regularly study the subject in our Bible classes. Not all JWs marriages are successful of course but to suggest there is anything in the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses that is destructive to the institution they view as being an institution of divine origins is a gross misrepresentation of the truth.

Does the Watchtower publish any material on how a married couple can stay happily married if husband or wife openly criticizes the Watchtower and its dogma?

[JehovahsWitness]

...you agree to break up marriages if a spouse appears to threaten Watchtower dogma in some way.

Please provide a reference from an official Jehovahs Witness publication that supports this statement.

Does the Watchtower publish any material on how a married couple can stay happily married if husband or wife openly criticizes the Watchtower and its dogma?

Yes...

Your mate’s present unwillingness to follow Christ is not in itself a valid reason for separation or divorce. (1 Cor. 7:12-16) Although an unbelieving husband may not take the lead in spiritual matters, he should be respected because of his position as the head of the family. Likewise, an unbelieving wife should be shown self-sacrificing love and tender affection by her Christian husband.​—Eph. 5:22, 23, 28, 29. - Watchtower 2017 October p. 13 par 7

What, though, if marriage mates have different religious views because one of them accepted Christian truth some time after they got married and the other did not? Can such a marriage succeed? The experience of many says yes. A husband and wife with different religious views can still have a successful marriage in the sense that it can be enduring and bring happiness to both. Besides, the marriage is still valid in Jehovah’s eyes; they are still “one flesh.” Therefore, Christian spouses are counseled to stay with the unbelieving partner if that partner is agreeable. If there are children, they benefit from the faithfulness of the Christian parent.​—1 Corinthians 7:12-14. - Watchtower 2005 3/1 page 19 para 11

But what if your mate does not follow the Bible’s high standard of conduct? Set the example by honoring your mate. Focus on his or her good qualities, and express appreciation for your mate. Avoid saying negative things about your mate in front of your children. Instead, explain to them that each person must choose whether to serve Jehovah" - w1710/15 p. 13 par 9. - Watchtower 2017 10/15 page 13 para 9

​The Scriptures, therefore, lay the primary emphasis on not breaking the marriage tie. If it is to be broken, the Christian should endeavor not to be the one that makes the break - Watchtower 1965 9/15 p. 570-571

Real life testimony
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 07_1_VIDEO

Series: Mixed Marriage [Emma & Thomas]Marriage—A Permanent Bond
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 11_3_VIDEO

[Difflugia]

Here are a few references from Shepherd the Flock of God. This one isn't in their electronic library collections. To get a copy, you'd probably need to know an ex-elder that's now disgusted by the whole thing and ready to pitch everything in the trash, but gives it all to you because they know that you collect interesting and novel religious books. Either that, or get lucky and be willing to pay through the nose on eBay (copies occasionally appear and tend to go for at least $100; I checked and there aren't any there right now, but there is a copy of the similar Pay Attention to Yourselves and All the Flock for $299).

From a list of guidlines for "determining whether a judicial committee should be formed," p. 60 (bold in original):

Though this is not an exhaustive list, brazen conduct in the following if the wrongdoer has an insolent, contemptuous attitude made evident by a practice of these things:

• Willful, continued, unnecessary association with disfellowshippwed nonrelatives despite repeated counsel.

From a list of instructions on "matters related to disfellowshipped & disassociated ones," p. 116 (again, emphasis in original):

If members of the congregation are known to have undue association with disfellowshipped or disassociated relatives who are not in the household, elders should counsel and reason with those members of the congregation from the Scriptures. Review with them information from the "God's Love" book, pages 207-208 [Appendix 1: "How to Treat a Disfellowshipped Person]; The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, pages 26-30 ["Discipline that can Yield Peaceable Fruit"]; or the article "Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped" in the August 2002 Our Kingdom Ministry. If it is clear that a Christian is violating the spirit of the disfellowshipping decree in this regard and does not respond to counsel, it may be that he would not qualify for congregation privileges, which require one to be exemplary. He would not be dealt with judicially unless there is persistent spiritual association or he openly criticizes the disfellowshipping decision.

I hyperlinked the articles mentioned in the text to the Online Library.

As an aside, the manual also includes in its directions for dealing with sexual child abuse that, "If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal decision for each individual to make and that there are no congregation sanctions for either decision."

[JehovahsWitness]

Here are a few references from Shepherd the Flock of God.

What has any of that got to do with a marriage partner?




JW

[Difflugia]

Here are a few references from Shepherd the Flock of God.

What has any of that got to do with a marriage partner?

First, the thread is about family in general.

Second, the linked articles do include instructions for dealing with a disfellowshipped "marriage partner." Since they were mentioned within the Shepherd text, I figured it was enough to simply hyperlink them there rather than mention them separately.

[JehovahsWitness]

...the linked articles do include instructions for dealing with a disfellowshipped "marriage partner."

I did not see anything at all on that subject. If you are claiming you have found anything that contradicts any of my post produce it.


JW

What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.

source: Official JW Website
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/

Since blood and marital relationships are not dissolved by a congregational disfellowshiping action, the situation within the family circle requires special consideration.

• A woman whose husband is disfellowshiped is not released from the Scriptural requirement to respect his husbandly headship over her; only death or Scriptural divorce from a husband results in such release. (Rom. 7:1-3; Mark 10:11, 12)

• A husband likewise is not released from loving his wife as “one flesh” with him even though she should be disfellowshiped. (Matt. 19:5, 6; Eph. 5:28-31)

- The Watchtower, August 1, p. 470 par 17

Emphasis MINE




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viewtopic.php?p=1032167#p1032167

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viewtopic.php?p=1060185#p1060185

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[Difflugia]

I did not see anything at all on that subject. If you are claiming you have found anything that contradicts any of my post produce it.

I posted the links without comment because I thought they applied to the present conversation. You're free to read them, ignore them, or tell us why disfellowshipping is a positive thing for families.

Whatever you decide to do with them, have an excellent weekend.

[JehovahsWitness]

I posted the links without comment

There is NOTHING in any of the links that contradicts anything I have ever posted on this thread or on this site.

You are free to try and prove me wrong.


Have an excellent day,


JEHOVAHS WITNESS





Do JWs view shunning a legitimate motive for divorce ?
viewtopic.php?p=1032193#p1032193

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