You MUST be born again

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Checkpoint
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You MUST be born again

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?
Last edited by Checkpoint on Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Checkpoint
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You MUST be born again

Post #461

Post by Checkpoint »

tam wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:34 pm Peace again to you!

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #453]

Did you look up Isaiah 66:8, Checkpoint?
No, I didn't.

Why should I have, tammy?

Being born again is, biblically, of the individual, not the corporate.

Some apply that verse to Israel, 1948.

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #462

Post by JehovahsWitness »

JehovahsWitness" wrote:Immortality is never mentioned in scripture as being intrinsic to ALL spirit all life.
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:07 pm
All spiritual bodied beings live forever.
Prove that with scripture (without resorting to logical fallacy - see below)


JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #463

Post by JehovahsWitness »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:07 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:49 am
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:11 pm There we will be like the angels which live forever.
Are you suggesting living forever equates to immortality? If so why?
Yes, because immortal beings live forever.
You are stating the obvious which is redundant, the real question is : must that which lives forever be immortal*?
LOGICAL FALLACY

Apples are green
My car is green
My car must be an apple

LOGICAL FALLACY

Immortals live forever
Angels can live forever
Angels must be immortal


If God can keep anyone alive (in whatever kind of body he deems fit ("physical" or "spiritual")) for as long as he so wishes, immortality is not the only route to "everlasting life".

[ * ] For this discussion "immortal"/"immortality" can be understood to mean, being indestructible. To have self-generating life that is not dependent on anything or anyone to be sustained; life that cannot be terminated.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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tam
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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #464

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Checkpoint wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:43 am
tam wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:34 pm Peace again to you!

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #453]

Did you look up Isaiah 66:8, Checkpoint?
No, I didn't.

Why should I have, tammy?
Oh, that is entirely up to you. I posted it because it supports what my Lord has taught me. An entire nation - New Jerusalem - born in a single day, just as Paul also gave a second witness to New Jerusalem (the Bride, the Church, made of people) being changed in an instant.

Being born again is, biblically, of the individual, not the corporate.
We are - each of us - born again, yes, but at the same time. See above re: New Jerusalem (the nation that is born in a single day).

Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.

Children (plural), born at same time.
Some apply that verse to Israel, 1948.
I would suggest to those people that the state of Israel is not the same thing as Israel (the people). Nor is there peace in the State of Israel, but rather there is brother against brother, innocent blood being spilled (Jew and Palestinian alike). Nor was the state of Israel actually formed in a day. As well (from verses 20 and 21), we know that the Temple of God is Christ (His Body)... not a man-made physical structure.



Peace again to you, and to your loved ones,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #465

Post by myth-one.com »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:09 am
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:07 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:49 am
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:11 pm There we will be like the angels which live forever.
Are you suggesting living forever equates to immortality? If so why?
Yes, because immortal beings live forever.
You are stating the obvious which is redundant, the real question is : must that which lives forever be immortal*?

LOGICAL FALLACY


Immortals live forever
Angels can live forever
Angels must be immortal

Immortals live forever
Angels live forever
Angels must be immortal


JehovahsWitness wrote:If God can keep anyone alive (in whatever kind of body he deems fit ("physical" or "spiritual")) for as long as he so wishes, immortality is not the only route to "everlasting life".
Anything which lives until it dies cannot be said to have everlasting life.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #466

Post by JehovahsWitness »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:18 am
Anything which lives until it dies cannot be said to have everlasting life.

Q#1 And what about that which lives but never dies? Can someone that never dies be described as having "everlasting life"¤?

¤ life that goes on/ continues forever

Q#2 Is there a difference between living forever and being INDESTRUCTIBLE?





[ * ] For this discussion "immortal"/"immortality" can be understood to mean, being indestructible. To have self-generating life that is not dependent on anything or anyone to be sustained; life that cannot be terminated.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #467

Post by JehovahsWitness »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:18 amAngels live forever
- Can you explain what you mean by "an angel" ?

- are angels not simply spirits of a particular rank /role? If no, why do you so conclude ?

- If there are only two types of bodies (spirit and physical ) which one do angels have? which one do spirits have?


* spirits evidently have different rank and position
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #468

Post by onewithhim »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:18 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:09 am
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:07 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:49 am
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:11 pm There we will be like the angels which live forever.
Are you suggesting living forever equates to immortality? If so why?
Yes, because immortal beings live forever.
You are stating the obvious which is redundant, the real question is : must that which lives forever be immortal*?

LOGICAL FALLACY


Immortals live forever
Angels can live forever
Angels must be immortal

Immortals live forever
Angels live forever
Angels must be immortal


JehovahsWitness wrote:If God can keep anyone alive (in whatever kind of body he deems fit ("physical" or "spiritual")) for as long as he so wishes, immortality is not the only route to "everlasting life".
Anything which lives until it dies cannot be said to have everlasting life.
Yes it could be said, because that individual lives until it turns against Jehovah. Therefore, if it never turns against Jehovah, it will always live.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #469

Post by tam »

Peace to you all,
If God can keep anyone alive (in whatever kind of body he deems fit ("physical" or "spiritual")) for as long as he so wishes, immortality is not the only route to "everlasting life".

If one wishes to live forever (everlasting life), then one must eat from the Tree of Life (Christ). Eating from the Tree of Life would be the route to everlasting life.

"...He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the Tree of Life and eat, and live forever."

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to eat from the Tree of Life in the Paradise of God."

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates."

(Might be worth noting that the city here is New Jerusalem.)

But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever.

“Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”




May anyone who wishes and anyone who thirsts, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"

(which water is holy spirit, poured out from Christ, given to Him without end from His Father)

Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #470

Post by myth-one.com »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:04 am
myth-one.com wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:18 amAngels live forever
- Can you explain what you mean by "an angel" ?

- are angels not simply spirits of a particular rank /role? If no, why do you so conclude ?

- If there are only two types of bodies (spirit and physical ) which one do angels have? which one do spirits have?
* spirits evidently have different rank and position
The Bible describes physical and spiritual forms of life.

Spiritual beings consist of God and the angels. Satan and his subordinates are included as angels.

Any being with a spiritual body is a spirit.
===============================================

The physical life forms consist of every life form which is not spiritual. This includes plants, insects, germs, viruses, fish, birds, animals, and others. Man is an animal.

All physical life forms share one very important characteristic. All die!

Spiritual life forms live for eternity. This is the characteristic which distinguishes man from spiritual beings.
===========================================

That which is born of physical beings is physical bodied.

That which is born of the Spirit is spiritual bodied.

===========================================

Thus, for man to gain everlasting life, he must be born of the Spirit.

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