Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?
He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?
He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?
Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?
I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.
JESUS IS NOT YHWH
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Re: Re:
Post #541I leave it to the good people passing through here to read both arguments, look up the Scriptures, and decide which point of view makes the most sense to them. I stand by what I said. (Jehovah said that He created by Himself because He is the Source of all power. There is no other Source of power.)101G wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:13 pmFirst thanks for the replies, second, we must disagree with your assessment. and here's why. Isaiah 44:24 states, "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" well, he was alone, and by himself, so he didn't go through anyone.onewithhim wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:39 pmNo, I'm sorry you can't see what is being said. There is ONE Source of the power of creation---Jehovah, the Father. He GAVE His Son the ability and His approval to create. As I Corinthians 8:6 tells us---all things were made THROUGH Jesus. Jehovah did His creating by means of His Son, Jesus. So they both can be considered "creators," but only one is the Source of that creation ability.101G wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:17 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #529]
then you have two creators, and two makers. which is none biblical, so do you wish to try again?
101G
Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH
Post #542GINOLJC, to all
Likewise, for I cannot change my position either, by violating scripture.
Jesus is an ordinal of himself, who as the Ordinal FIRST, created all things, per John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24.
and this ONE PERSON, is God, who is a Spirit, per John 4:24, who is the Person of God, as Hebrews 1:3 clearly states, "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
PICJAG,
101G
Likewise, for I cannot change my position either, by violating scripture.
Jesus is an ordinal of himself, who as the Ordinal FIRST, created all things, per John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24.
and this ONE PERSON, is God, who is a Spirit, per John 4:24, who is the Person of God, as Hebrews 1:3 clearly states, "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
PICJAG,
101G
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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH
Post #543You are violating Scripture. You present the Bible as contradicting itself, and it truly does not, when looking at ALL verses (and not leaving any out, which you have done).101G wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:43 am GINOLJC, to all
Likewise, for I cannot change my position either, by violating scripture.
Jesus is an ordinal of himself, who as the Ordinal FIRST, created all things, per John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24.
and this ONE PERSON, is God, who is a Spirit, per John 4:24, who is the Person of God, as Hebrews 1:3 clearly states, "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
PICJAG,
101G
John 1:3 says that "all things came into existence THROUGH him." This lines up with what I have been saying. The Father (God) is the Source of creating power, and Jesus Christ is the means by which God, Jehovah, creates.
Isaiah 44:24 simply stresses the fact that no one else beside Jehovah has the power that He does. There is no other god anywhere that can match Him in power. No other god can claim to have done what Jehovah has achieved by His power.
Please tell me....how can God (as you want us to believe--Jesus) sit down on his own right hand?
Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH
Post #544first thanks for the reply, second, the bible never say this, the bible is clear, the ONE PERSON, God didn't go through anyone, listen, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:19 pmYou are violating Scripture. You present the Bible as contradicting itself, and it truly does not, when looking at ALL verses (and not leaving any out, which you have done).101G wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:43 am GINOLJC, to all
Likewise, for I cannot change my position either, by violating scripture.
Jesus is an ordinal of himself, who as the Ordinal FIRST, created all things, per John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24.
and this ONE PERSON, is God, who is a Spirit, per John 4:24, who is the Person of God, as Hebrews 1:3 clearly states, "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
PICJAG,
101G
John 1:3 says that "all things came into existence THROUGH him." This lines up with what I have been saying. The Father (God) is the Source of creating power, and Jesus Christ is the means by which God, Jehovah, creates.
Isaiah 44:24 simply stresses the fact that no one else beside Jehovah has the power that He does. There is no other god anywhere that can match Him in power. No other god can claim to have done what Jehovah has achieved by His power.
Please tell me....how can God (as you want us to believe--Jesus) sit down on his own right hand?
ALONE means, having no one else present. so he didn't go through anyone, as a matter of Fact, allone eliminated any other person, or persons.
it is the LORD, all caps that "MADE ALL THINGS", now unless you are acknowledging the JESUS is the LORD who made all thing then that would be a correct assessment, just as John 1:3 states.
hope that helped.
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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH
Post #545[Replying to 101G in post #545]
I wonder if this applies here: "There are none so blind as those who will not see."
I dare say that my explanation makes sense but you still insist that Jesus made everything with his own power. This idea even Jesus disputes.
"Jesus approached them saying: 'All authority has been GIVEN to me in heaven and on the earth.'" (Matthew 28:18)
Who GAVE Jesus his power and authority?
.
I wonder if this applies here: "There are none so blind as those who will not see."
I dare say that my explanation makes sense but you still insist that Jesus made everything with his own power. This idea even Jesus disputes.
"Jesus approached them saying: 'All authority has been GIVEN to me in heaven and on the earth.'" (Matthew 28:18)
Who GAVE Jesus his power and authority?
.
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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH
Post #546Peace to you,
[Replying to 101G in post #545]
John 1:3 states that all things were made through Christ, as does John 1:10. Just in case some would interpret that in a few different ways, Hebrews makes it clear:
But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2
God made the universe through His Son.
Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
[Replying to 101G in post #545]
John 1:3 states that all things were made through Christ, as does John 1:10. Just in case some would interpret that in a few different ways, Hebrews makes it clear:
But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2
God made the universe through His Son.
Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH
Post #547Thanks for the reply, but the scriptures do not agree with that assessment, and here's why. if one person made "ALL THINGS" through another person, well Isaiah 44:24 states God who made all things was "Alone", and "By himself". that right there eliminates any going through anoyone else. because ALONE means, having no one else present. and two the Lord Jesus himself said this, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," so it was not Jesus the Son of god who went through anyone. so your statement, "God made the universe through His Son". and the "he" in Matthews 19:4 is God. for the gospel of Mark certify this, Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female." the bible don't agree with. your statementtam wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:46 pm Peace to you,
[Replying to 101G in post #545]
John 1:3 states that all things were made through Christ, as does John 1:10. Just in case some would interpret that in a few different ways, Hebrews makes it clear:
But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2
God made the universe through His Son.
Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
PICJAG,
101G.
Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH
Post #548Thanks, for the reply, this was after his resurrection, in GLORIFICATION, which he, he, he, laid down his life. and had authority and the power to restore it. understand, Jesus the Son of God is simply the BODY/the Son, on earth in flesh, and Jesus the Son of Man is simply, the HEAD/the Father, Spirit of God in heaven.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:34 pm [Replying to 101G in post #545]
I wonder if this applies here: "There are none so blind as those who will not see."
I dare say that my explanation makes sense but you still insist that Jesus made everything with his own power. This idea even Jesus disputes.
"Jesus approached them saying: 'All authority has been GIVEN to me in heaven and on the earth.'" (Matthew 28:18)
Who GAVE Jesus his power and authority?
.
ps, it was Jesus himself who raised up his own Body, by his own power, see John 2:18-21.
PICJAG,
101
G.
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Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH
Post #549Peace to you,
But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2
**
Isaiah 44 appears to be rebutting the idea of "idols" that people worshiped as if those idols were anything, as if those idols had anything to do with creation, or with stretching out the heavens. The Son of God, however, was present for these things (see Proverbs 8:22-28). As for Mark 10, yes, God made them male and female, but His Son was with Him when He did this. We can know that God was not alone when He did this, because He said, "Let us make man in our image." "Us" and "our" refers to God and to His Son.
Peace again to you!
It's not really my statement. It is the statement of the author of "John" and "Hebrews":101G wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:09 pmThanks for the reply, but the scriptures do not agree with that assessment, and here's why. if one person made "ALL THINGS" through another person, well Isaiah 44:24 states God who made all things was "Alone", and "By himself". that right there eliminates any going through anoyone else. because ALONE means, having no one else present. and two the Lord Jesus himself said this, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," so it was not Jesus the Son of god who went through anyone. so your statement, "God made the universe through His Son". and the "he" in Matthews 19:4 is God. for the gospel of Mark certify this, Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female." the bible don't agree with. your statementtam wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:46 pm Peace to you,
[Replying to 101G in post #545]
John 1:3 states that all things were made through Christ, as does John 1:10. Just in case some would interpret that in a few different ways, Hebrews makes it clear:
But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2
God made the universe through His Son.
Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
PICJAG,
101G.
But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2
**
Isaiah 44 appears to be rebutting the idea of "idols" that people worshiped as if those idols were anything, as if those idols had anything to do with creation, or with stretching out the heavens. The Son of God, however, was present for these things (see Proverbs 8:22-28). As for Mark 10, yes, God made them male and female, but His Son was with Him when He did this. We can know that God was not alone when He did this, because He said, "Let us make man in our image." "Us" and "our" refers to God and to His Son.
Peace again to you!
Re: JESUS IS NOT YHWH
Post #550Thanks, for the reply, but that's the crust of the matter, the Lord Jesus is the Father the Ordinal First, (SPIRIT), who "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF", MADE ALL THINGS, but in Matthews 19:4 the son said "he" made them male and female. this is where the understanding of "Ordinal First and Last", come in at. the Son was was foreordain to come, (LAST).... listen, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."tam wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:21 pm Peace to you,
It's not really my statement. It is the statement of the author of "John" and "Hebrews":101G wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:09 pmThanks for the reply, but the scriptures do not agree with that assessment, and here's why. if one person made "ALL THINGS" through another person, well Isaiah 44:24 states God who made all things was "Alone", and "By himself". that right there eliminates any going through anoyone else. because ALONE means, having no one else present. and two the Lord Jesus himself said this, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," so it was not Jesus the Son of god who went through anyone. so your statement, "God made the universe through His Son". and the "he" in Matthews 19:4 is God. for the gospel of Mark certify this, Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female." the bible don't agree with. your statementtam wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:46 pm Peace to you,
[Replying to 101G in post #545]
John 1:3 states that all things were made through Christ, as does John 1:10. Just in case some would interpret that in a few different ways, Hebrews makes it clear:
But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2
God made the universe through His Son.
Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
PICJAG,
101G.
But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2
**
Isaiah 44 appears to be rebutting the idea of "idols" that people worshiped as if those idols were anything, as if those idols had anything to do with creation, or with stretching out the heavens. The Son of God, however, was present for these things (see Proverbs 8:22-28). As for Mark 10, yes, God made them male and female, but His Son was with Him when He did this. We can know that God was not alone when He did this, because He said, "Let us make man in our image." "Us" and "our" refers to God and to His Son.
Peace again to you!
also as the apostle Peter by the Holy Spirit said, 1 Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"
there was no blood before the foundation of the world, nor at it. so there was no son of God at Genesis 1:1 when "HE", God created ALL THINGS.
PICJAG, 101G.