God's Ways

[Paul of Tarsus]

Many have said that "the Lord works in mysterious ways." If we were to outline the ways of the Christian God, then how would we describe those ways? Those ways are indeed often mysterious, and here's a partial outline of what I have been told about God and his ways:

1. He created the world, but when that world proved to be imperfect, he blamed us for its faults.
2. Although he has worked countless wonders, he never bothered to do so under circumstances in which we can all be confident he did so.
3. If we doubt any of those miracles that we cannot be sure happened, he will punish us for doubting.
4. To let us know he loves us he sent his son Jesus into the world demanding that Jesus die a horrible death.
5. He very often neglects details.
6. When people argue about him he doesn't bother to resolve the issues.
7. He "chose" the Jews never bothering to explain what's special about them leaving many of them wishing he had chosen somebody else.
8. Although his son Jesus reputedly despised commercialism especially commercialism tied to places where people worship God, God ended up creating a religion that makes very good use of commercialism making many members of that religion very wealthy.
9. He prefers to talk to men.
10. He can make people act as if they are mentally ill.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #7]

It sounds like you're admitting that the Christian God doesn't make sense. That might be true if you insist that that God is real, but if you see him as make-believe, then the pieces all fall into place.

Very true. We see it all the time: people make an excuse for God and believe it because it suits them.

I didn't make anything up.

To be clear, I wasn't accusing. But it makes sense, when one thinks about it. Like the saying of 'garbage in garbage out', the same holds true with any belief: 'craziness in craziness out'

[Paul of Tarsus]

The WAY is Christ (I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life - no one comes to the Father except through me). If you want to know about God (the Father of Christ), then what Christ tells/shows us is what we should be listening/looking to. Christ is the one who reveals his Father as His Father truly is.

That's another mystery. Why does God insist on one and only one middleman? Why not two or three? We are not told why, but such exclusivism does serve to keep other religions out of the mix.

He created the world, but when that world proved to be imperfect, he blamed us for its faults.

The world did not prove to be imperfect...

How could the world God created be perfect when there was a devious snake in it?

So the "blame" is just appropriate.

If people are to be blamed for the world's troubles, then doing so gets God off the hook, now doesn't it? You just can't trust a God for salvation if he bungled the creation.

Although he has worked countless wonders, he never bothered to do so under circumstances in which we can all be confident he did so.

Did He promise to do that? Is that needed for those whom He draws to His Son?

As far as I know, God never promised to do his mighty works in front of all of us. Some people I suppose don't let that stop them from believing what they're told about those works.

That doesn't mean someone who doubts God's existance cannot receive life (even eternal life).

Then atheists will reign in heaven with Christ.

If we doubt any of those miracles that we cannot be sure happened, he will punish us for doubting.

Like what? Do you have an example?

Try Mark 16:16 for starters.

He sent his son Jesus into the world demanding that Jesus die a horrible death to let us know he loves us.

God did not demand this. Sending His Son to us was from love - to save us, to ransom us back from Death, to call and train us in peace, to teach us truth, lead us into all truth. God did not force man to torture His Son. Christ also had the choice to come, to not come, to refuse to go through with the arrest and subsequent execution. As Christ said, He could have called on an army of angels to prevent His arrest if He chose. Yet He did this also out of love, 'no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends', and yet Christ even did so for those who were yet His enemies.

It sounds like Christ committed suicide.

He very often neglects details.

Did the person who told you this give you any examples?

I've read the Bible as you know, and much detail is omitted. For instance, aside from his talking in the temple as a boy, we are not told what Christ did before he started his ministry

When people argue about him he doesn't bother to resolve the issues.
Resolve for whom? Because He did send His Son to bear witness to the truth, to reveal the Father. Whether one listens to that Son or not, well, that is another matter.

I suppose God never bothered to resolve the issues between the two of us.

He "chose" the Jews never bothering to explain what's special about them leaving many of them wishing he had chosen somebody else.

Someone told you that many Jews wish that God had chosen someone else? I'm not sure that is true, but even if many do wish that, there are many who do not wish that.

I remember seeing a Jewish man on television who, referring to the Holocaust, quipped that he wished God had chosen somebody else. It's safe to say that the Jews in the concentration camps would have agreed.

Although his son Jesus reputedly despised commercialism especially commercialism tied to places where people worship God, God ended up creating a religion that makes very good use of commercialism making many members of that religion very wealthy.

So who told you that God created such a religion?

The writers of the New Testament wrote of the new religion.

If Christ is the Truth and the Image of God, why would God have created a religion that does the very things that Christ spoke against?

I suppose for the same reason that God created a world that went bad. God's "perfect" creations tend to go sour in the long run, and when they do go sour, people are to take the blame.

If something goes bad, then how could it have ever been perfect? The possibility of degradation is an imperfection.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
If something goes bad, then how could it have ever been perfect? The possibility of degradation is an imperfection.

That's kinda the problem with using subjective terms.

Not all will agree on what's bad and what ain't, or what's perfect and what ain't.

So we're left with folks who think their god can do no wrong, and how that god made him humans, who can't do them no right.

[JehovahsWitness]

9. He prefers to talk to men.

Preference is not necessarily established through frequency. A prosecuter may speak to more criminals than honest lawabiding people but this might not be indicative of his preference. That God chose to transmit his message primarily through men may be influenced by social necessities and be totally unrelated to preference.




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WOMEN, SLAVERY and ...., SEXISM

[1213]

...1. He created the world, but when that world proved to be imperfect, he blamed us for its faults.

Where do you get that idea?

2. Although he has worked countless wonders, he never bothered to do so under circumstances in which we can all be confident he did so.

I don’t think atheist would be confident that He did something in any situation.

3. If we doubt any of those miracles that we cannot be sure happened, he will punish us for doubting.

Where do you get that idea?

4. To let us know he loves us he sent his son Jesus into the world demanding that Jesus die a horrible death.

Where do you get that idea?

5. He very often neglects details.

How would details be useful for you?

6. When people argue about him he doesn't bother to resolve the issues.

I think the problem is that people don't want to hear and understand. In such case there is no point to solve anything.

7. He "chose" the Jews never bothering to explain what's special about them leaving many of them wishing he had chosen somebody else.

I recommend reading the Bible.

8. Although his son Jesus reputedly despised commercialism especially commercialism tied to places where people worship God, God ended up creating a religion that makes very good use of commercialism making many members of that religion very wealthy.

I think it is humans who create religions.

9. He prefers to talk to men.

I have no reason to think so. But it wouldn't be any wonder when it was a woman who first rejected Him. Women don't seem to want to listen to Him.

10. He can make people act as if they are mentally ill.

But you don't think that is a miracle?

I don't think He makes anyone act like mentally ill, simply no reason to think so.

[JehovahsWitness]

I've read the Bible as you know...

None of us really know if you've read the bible ....

None of us really know if you're a Jehovah's Witness

... aside from his talking in the temple as a boy, we are not told what Christ did before he started his ministry

This is true. Do you consider this problematic? If so, why?

[Diagoras]

I think it is humans who create religions.

I was surprised to read this in your post, but agree and support it 100%.

[Paul of Tarsus]

I think the problem is that people don't want to hear and understand. In such case there is no point to solve anything.

That's good advice that I will put into practice right now.

[Paul of Tarsus]

I've read the Bible as you know...

None of us really know if you've read the bible ....

It can be really hard to tell if a person has read the Bible. Very true!

None of us really know if you're a Jehovah's Witness

I mentioned you and your activities on this board to a Jehovah's Witness I know, and he said he doubts if you are a Jehovah's Witness. He said a Jehovah's Witness would not do what you are doing.

... aside from his talking in the temple as a boy, we are not told what Christ did before he started his ministry

This is true. Do you consider this problematic? If so, why?

If we knew what Jesus was doing prior to the time we are told he started his ministry, then that would no doubt shed a lot of light on why he did what he did and where he got his ideas. The Bible tends to be very sparse on the details of its narratives and doctrines, and it has left many people scratching their heads and disagreeing over what it means. Catholics and Protestants, for example, have been fighting for centuries over what they read in the Bible. It's illogical to conclude that an all-wise God would create such confusion especially when he presumably is not the author of confusion.

[Tcg]

That's another mystery. Why does God insist on one and only one middleman? Why not two or three? We are not told why, but such exclusivism does serve to keep other religions out of the mix.

Why would God need any number of middlemen? Does he suffer from terminal stage fright or is he simply a horrible public speaker? If it's the former, perhaps an appointment with a competent psychologist is in order. If it's the latter, he could join Toastmasters International and get some needed practice.

Of course if he needs middlemen to push his message because he doesn't actually exist, neither will help.


Tcg