The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[JehovahsWitness]

Heaven will be integrated with earth; somehow, someway.

Okay so if HEAVEN is the spiritual realm. And the earth is this our physical charbon based planet where humans live...what do you mean by "Heaven will be integrated with earth"?



JW

[We_Are_VENOM]

Okay so if HEAVEN is the spiritual realm. And the earth is this our physical charbon based planet where humans live...what do you mean by "Heaven will be integrated with earth"?

JW

Sorry, JW..no more questions.

I think I've made my point as clear as I can, providing both elaboration and analogies.

Don't know what more can be said.

[Checkpoint]

Perhaps you could now attempt to answer these two observations/questions:

1). Does this king, Jesus Christ, the Son, now dwell in, make his home in, heaven only, or does he also dwell in, make his home in, his true believers on earth?

WHERE DOES JESUS LIVE ?

Jesus is a spirit and dwells uniquely at his Fathers right hand in heaven (John 17:5; Psalms 110:1).


IF JESUS IS LITERALLY LIVING WITH HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN, HOW CAN HE AT THE SAME TIME DWELL IN OUR HEARTS?

He is "with" his disciples in the sense that he observes and takes an active part in protecting and supporting them. He does not need to literally return to the planet earth to collaborate and guide them. All that love him have him symbolically "dwell in their hearts". This does not mean he literally enters their chests, it means that they love him and use their lives in a way that pleases him.

It may seem impossible to some that Jesus is literally in another realm, but still have such a huge influence on the lives of believers, but the bible says he promised this would be the case (Mat 18:20).

JW

Thank you for this answer. It seems to me to be similar to what another poster wrote earlier, which was this:

I think it means, the King is in your mind, person knows in the mind the King and his will and wants to do it.

I now ask you the question I had then asked:

What poster 1213 expressed could be a valid description of one way the kingdom government operates, couldn't it?

[JehovahsWitness]

I think I've made my point as clear as I can, providing both elaboration and analogies.

Well you've made it clear that you can't make it clear. You elaboration and analogies were useless and confusing.

These are pretty simple elementary questions any of our three year olds could probably answer ( what does the bible mean when it speaks of the earth, heaven or paradise ... what is the hope of Christians) ...but fair enough I appreciate not everybody has actually studied the bible.

If this is the first time anyone has ever asked any hard questions on the topic, I can understand why you would find it unsettling. I was only asking you about things you mentioned (I didn't even get to asking you about the third heaven or where is your alleged "stop off/temporary paradise"...)

This is the kitchen though...it can get mighty hot, so you might like to think about that next time you attempt to debate a topic. In Sunday school you will not likely be challenged when you propose a biblical interpretation...here, its likely happen.

Sorry, JW..no more questions ... Don't know what more can be said.

Now ... given how you reacted to a few simple questions for clarification: was there something you wanted to ask me avout Jehovah's Witneesses beliefs on the topic?

[JehovahsWitness]

Well, I will tell you what isn't confusing, and crystal clear; Paul stating that our citizenship is in heaven (Phil 3:20).

How is that for clarity?

Well, we've established Paul cqn express himself clearly. I'd ask you if you think that means his reward is to spend eternity in heaven even though you have suggested God will literally leave heaven (to reside on the planet earth) ....but you seem to get a little jumpy with questions.



No matter,



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

What poster 1213 expressed could be a valid description of one way the kingdom government operates, couldn't it?

As an imagined entity that only exists in our minds? No, I dont think so.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the point... I'm not a big fan of building on someone else's premise (see post above).

JW

[We_Are_VENOM]

Well you've made it clear that you can't make it clear. You elaboration and analogies were useless and confusing.

Well, I will tell you what isn't confusing, and crystal clear; Paul stating that our citizenship is in heaven (Phil 3:20).

How is that for clarity?

These are pretty simple elementary questions any of our three year olds could probably answer ( what does the bible mean when it speaks of the earth, heaven or paradise ... what is the hope of Christians) ...but fair enough I appreciate not everybody has actually studied the bible.

If this is the first time anyone has ever asked any hard questions on the topic, I can understand why you would find it unsettling. I was only asking you about things you mentioned (I didn't even get to asking you about the third heaven or where is your alleged "stop off/temporary paradise"...)

This is the kitchen though...it can get mighty hot, so you might like to think about that next time you attempt to debate a topic. In Sunday school you will not likely be challenged when you propose a biblical interpretation...here, its likely happen.

What I described to you is what I believe to be a "heaven on earth" concept...you act as of the concept is completely foreign to you, when people use the phrase all the time in common day expression.

When someone uses the phrase "wow, this feels like heaven on earth", usually "but what do you mean by earth" isn't a follow up question.

But hey, I can explain it to you, but I cant understand it for you.

Now ... given how you reacted to a few simple questions for clarification: was there something you wanted to ask me avout Jehovah's Witneesses beliefs on the topic?

Nope, I know and understand JW beliefs on the subject matter.

[JehovahsWitness]

What I described to you is what I believe to be a "heaven on earth" concept...you act as of the concept is completely foreign to you, when people use the phrase all the time in common day expression.

Okay. My understanding of that expression to mean being in idyllic conditions; not to mean some kind of complicated fusion bebween to different realms or universes.



To say the bible is promising "heaven on earth" then would mean the physical (carbon based) planet remains so but that the conditions on this our planet earth become idylic. If that is what you mean, it is exactly what Jehovahs Witnesses teach ie that human beings will remain human beings living'on this our physical planet but without the pollution, war, sickness and other problems that plague mankind. Instead the hope is to live on this earth under idyllic "garden like" conditions.

There is another word people often used when describing the above... paradise!. Do you remember what I said earlier?

We believe they are. Under Christ, there will be a thousand year peaceful reign during which the earth will be returned to the paradise-like "garden" God intended it to be.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE KINGDOM, THE MILLENIUM and ...THE EARTHLY PARADISE

[We_Are_VENOM]

Well, we've established Paul cqn express himself clearly. I'd ask you if you think that means his reward is to spend eternity in heaven even though you have suggested God will literally leave heaven (to reside on the planet earth) ....but you seem to get a little jumpy with questions.

You are ultimately asking the same question, but in different ways....and I am giving different variations of the same answer.

It is sickening.

[We_Are_VENOM]

Okay. My understanding of that expression to mean being in idyllic conditions; not to mean some kind of complicated fusion bebween to different realms or universes.


To say the bible is promising "heaven on earth" then would mean the physical (carbon based) planet remains so but that the conditions on this our planet earth become idylic. If that is what you mean, it is exactly what Jehovahs Witnesses teach ie that human beings will remain human beings living'on this our physical planet but without the pollution, war, sickness and other problems that plague mankind. Instead the hope is to live on this earth under idyllic "garden like" conditions.

There is another word people often used when describing the above... paradise!. Do you remember what I said earlier?

That is fine, and what I am saying is; paradise, earth, and heaven will all be the same place..all three will be a new glorified dwelling where God and his people will live forever.

Can it get any more simpler than that?