Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

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Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #1

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

.

First off, let me preface this by saying the following..

1. As mentioned on another thread, I have many years invested in dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's), from family, to friends, to strangers. I am very familiar with them and their theology.

2. I am beginning a series of threads attacking their "Christian" theology and doctrine. This one, as titled, deals with Jehovah's Witnesses and their false prophecies.

3. I have beef with, not only JW's, but ANYONE of whom I believe to be spreading false Christian doctrine. This includes, but not limited to...

A.) Mormons
B.) Catholics
C.) World Mission Society Church of God
D.) Hebrew Israelites

Jehovah's Witnesses are just one of many false Christian denominations. But, we are talking about Jehovah's Witnesses for now.

So, the question is ultimately; Why do I feel as if Jehovah's Witnesses are false teachers? There are many reasons, and one of those reasons is their many failed attempts at predicting prophecy.

Before I continue on post #2, keep in mind that future threads in this series will go straight to the gusto, with no preface.

Just FYI.
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #21

Post by JehovahsWitness »

DID JEHOVAHS WITNESSES PRONOUNCE A FALSE PHROPHECY REGARDING 1914?

No. The Jehovah's have never claimed to offer prophecy only opinion on existing prophecy. They correctly understood, many decades in advance, that 1914 would prove to be pivotal in human history (It was indeed the year the first world war would start). They were wrong about what those events would mean for God's people.



IS THEIR RECOGNISING THEIR ERRORS REPREHENSIBLE "BACK PEDDLING"?

To backpeddle means to change an opinion that one had before. If humans never changed their opinions when they see they are wrong we would still be in the dark ages. There is nothing reprehensible about recognising one's own errors.


DID JEHOVAHS NOT REFUSE TO CHANGE THEIR OPINIONS IN A JULY ARTICLE 1894?

One cannot be expected to change ones opinion if one is convinced one is right. This statsment was made many years before 1914 (the year in question) and the publishers of the Watchtower saw no reason to change their position at the time of publishing. If was not a case of stubbonly sticking to a wrong view or delaying a correction but being convInced of a belief.

CONCLUSION : Jehovahs Witnesses never deny they said what they have published or try and shift the error. Rather they recognize they were wrong when they see that is the case and try to learn from their mistakes.
Let the individiual, group or organisation that has never had to do the above, cast the first stone.



JW



RELATED POSTS

Why are Jehovah's Witnesses delighted when their organisation changes their beliefs?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 31#p951631

Did Jehovah's Witnesses predict that Jesus' rule INVISIBLY before 1914?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 41#p891141

Did Jehovah's Witnesses predict the end of the world in 1975?
viewtopic.php?p=1044928#p1044928

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL , 1914 and ...FAILED PREDICTIONS,
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #22

Post by JehovahsWitness »

DID JEHOVAHS WITNESSES PREDICT THE END OF THE WORLD IN 1975?


No. The Watchtower Society speculated that that was a possibility. To this day, Jehovahs Witnesses still hold that 1975 marked 6000 years since the man's creation according to bible chronology and prior to 1975 certain statements published indicated that this "could" , "may" "might" mark the end of the system. The organization has since then learnt to be more cautious in their pronouncements



JW


RELATED POSTS

How many times have Jehovah's Witesses wrongly predicted the end of the world? [video]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 26#p981826

Did Jehovah's Witnesses predict that Jesus' rule INVISIBLY before 1914?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 41#p891141

What did Jehovahs Witnesses expect to happen in 1914? [Onewithim]
viewtopic.php?p=1044836#p1044836

Did Jehovah's Witnesses predict the end of the world in 1975?
viewtopic.php?p=1044928#p1044928
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

1914 , THE LAST DAYS and ...FAILED PREDICTIONS,
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #23

Post by JehovahsWitness »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:15 pm .

You see, Jehovah's Witnesses go around town being arrogant. They consider themselves..

1. God's chosen organization
2. "The truth"
3. The "faithful and discreet slave"
Scripturally speaking there is nothing "arrogant" about believing one has found the truth.

Image

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe they are the source of truth, only that they have come to understand and love what they believe to be bible truths and are doing their best to live up to that privilege.

DO JEHOVAHS WITNESSES CLAIM TO BE THE TRUTH?

No, that is not an expression you will find in our literature. We believe we "have" the truth (as in, we have found the truth (see above). We believe we have been chosen as a body/ an organisation to represent true Christianity and teach bible truths to others. But it's Gods word (which contains truths revealed through Christ) that *IS* truth. Jesus alone as Gods spokesman can claim to be the truth. Accusations that JWs claim such a position for themselves are entirely baseless.

IS IT NOT WRONG TO SAY ONE HAS THE TRUTH?

Not scripturally, no.
JOHN 4:14 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

But whoever drinks from the water that I will give him will never get thirsty again—ever! In fact, the water I will give him will become a well of water springing up within him for eternal life."”
Figuratively speaking, Jesus himself explained that the truths he taught are not something static, but if applied become a internal force for good, stimulating believers to speak and act in line with Gods holy spirit. In short scripturally, saying one HAS the truth (within them) is neither neither bad nor arrogant.

CONCLUSION Most people that claim to be Christians today do not believe God has an earthly organisation or that he has appointed a "faithful and discreet slave" (Mat 24:45) to the office of oversight within; but both notions are entirely scriptural. It is not presumtuous or inappropriate to use expressions such as "being in" or "having the truth" as these are biblical ideas that in no way challenges Jesus position as the chief agent of truth.





JEHOVAH'S WITNESS




FURTHER READING :

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe That They Have the One True Religion??
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... -religion/

Are You Convinced That You Have the Truth? Why?
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2014682



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Do Jehovahs Witnesses claim that their organization has a monopoly on truth?
viewtopic.php?p=840124#p840124

Do Jehovahs Witnesses believe theirs is the only true religion?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 15#p868315

Do Jehovahs Witnesses condemn people of other faiths?
viewtopic.php?p=854020#p854020

Can True Christians have false expectations ?
viewtopic.php?p=1061567#p1061567
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY , RELIGIOUS TRUTH and . . .THE TRUE RELIGION
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:34 am, edited 11 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #24

Post by onewithhim »

Tcg wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:55 am
onewithhim wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:45 am
Which millions are you referring to? The 8+ millions of Jehovah's Witnesses? None of us find anything sad about our position in God's organization.
How could you possibly know that about a group that includes 8+ million people? You couldn't have talked to more than an infinitesimally small fraction of the group.


Tcg
I would say that you would have to be a JW to begin to understand. Wherever you go in the world you will get treated the same as you would in a country on the other side of the planet. I have had experience in Germany, and my children have met with JWs in many lands. We all believe the same and have the same meetings, and treat other people with love, including those not of our faith.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #25

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Tcg in post #21]

That may be true, but I'm not worried. I'll get to know every person on Earth during Jesus' Thousand-Year Reign. We'll have endless time, really. We'll get to spend as much time as we want with somebody because we have forever. (The Millennial Reign will not be the end of Paradise. I Corinthians 15:24-28 shows that Jesus will hand over the government to his Father, God. Paradise will continue, under the auspices of Jehovah, the true God.)

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #26

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:45 am
Checkpoint wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:04 am [Replying to onewithhim in post #17]
We are the only ones who, for instance, follow Christ's commands to the letter.
As time has continued and the Lord has not returned, that claim has, sadly, become hollow.

The specifics and the reasonings you know far better than I do.

When I think of it, I feel so sad for the millions who have been affected.

Love y'all anyway, somehow!
Which millions are you referring to? The 8+ millions of Jehovah's Witnesses? None of us find anything sad about our position in God's organization. We know what is about to take place, as the Bible is clear and there is no guessing about it, e.g., the cry of "peace and security" and the destruction of Babylon the Great. We have a wonderful spiritual paradise even now, with all brothers and sisters united in thought and deed. We look forward to an awesome paradise on Earth that God purposed from the beginning. I think we're more anxiety-free than any other people on Earth.
Yes, the 8+ million JWs.

I was not referring to prophecy or to the future.

I was referring to your claim to "follow Christ's commands to the letter."

Do those 8 million do that to one of his commands, or do they, instead, refrain and abstain, and thus, effectively, refuse to do so?

I think you(and the other 8 million JWs) well know which command that is.

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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #27

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:51 pm [Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #1]
I am familiar with all the objections about things that JWs have said would probably happen but did not. My outlook is this: JWs never claimed to be prophets. They merely took prophecies that were already in the Bible and presented their own understanding of them. They have always consulted the Scriptures and then set forth their understanding. It is commendable that they have admitted their mistakes and have not ignored them or tried to cover them up.
Well first of all, I commend YOU for admitting their mistakes. However, I don't think the organization as a whole has a good reputation for admitting mistakes.

Second, again, Jesus said that he did not know the time or day (Mark 13:32), so for the Watchtower and Tract Society to come forth with these bold predictions and being so adamant about the year, I'm sure is a direct slap in the face of Jesus.

If Jesus doesn't know something pertaining to the Father and the times of his will, then guess what, Jehovah's Witnesses doesn't know either.

This is something that JW members should have known, instead of being like blind sheep and following along under the guidance of obvious uninspired men.
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:51 pm Judge Rutherford built a house for one of the ancient forefathers because he thought that the resurrection would come in his day. He didn't claim to get the idea straight from God, did he? That is what a prophet does. Not Rutherford or Russell or any of the other leaders of the WTS.
He was still wrong, though. Look, YOU guys are the ones going around saying that you are the "truth".

What do I expect from the "truth"? Well, I expect the TRUTH.

I don't expect inaccuracies, misjudgments, and falsehoods. God does not direct inaccuracies. If your organization was really under the direction of God, no inaccuracy would result from such direction.

Unless someone's organization isn't under the direction of God after all.
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:51 pm They set 1975 as the year most probably that Armageddon would come. I was baptized in that year, and I, along with everyone else in my congregation, took it as a possibility but not a fact written in stone. Why could we feel that way? Because the WTS didn't blow a foghorn and announce that the Great Tribulation would definitely start in 1975. If you look in literature from 1974, even December, there is nothing about 1975 being the year. 1975 came and went, and I was fine with it. It would've been nice, but oh well.
Um, no. It is well-documented what the WTS put out to its followers prior to 1975. 1975 was the year.

And sure, the literature from 1974, there was probably nothing. Why? Because at that time, it was probably clear to the governing body that nothing as going to happen, that's why.

But what about prior to 1974? I already provided references to WTS literature pertaining to the coming "Armageddon". The references are plentiful.
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:51 pm Every other so-called prophecy was just an educated GUESS, revealing a current understanding of certain texts, but then finding out that further research into the matter should be done. Not a prophet's stand.
Sorry, onewithhim. That won't work. An organization that God has specifically chosen will not take educated guesses.

You guys claim that God has chosen you, and you place faith that your leaders are inspired by the Living God.

If that was the case, your leaders would not have to take educated guesses, if God has chosen them directly.
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:51 pm Im sure you know that other religions have made their own guesses. The important thing to observe, however, is what are the various religions DOING?
I don't know. We are talking about Jehovah's Witnesses right now.
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:51 pm If you can find any deceit or actions contrary to what the Bible teaches, then that religion is not of God. It's easy to see the faults of other religions.
Anyone can be wrong...no one is perfect...but when you go around saying that you are God's faithful and discreet slave, and God's organization, you place yourself at a higher standard above the rest...I expect 100% accuracy.
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:51 pm But how are JWs to be condemned for what they do when it is what the Scriptures tell us to do or not do? We are the only ones who, for instance, follow Christ's commands to the letter.
I beg to differ. :D
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #28

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:04 pm [Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #2]

1914? They expected to go to heaven in that year.
Ok, so if I go to church and my pastor is always yapping about how God choose him and blah blah blah.

And my pastor goes on to say that "Next week, on the 27th, all believers in Christ will go to heaven, to be with the Most High".

Next week comes...and on the 27th, nothing happens.

Am I still to follow that pastor?
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:04 pm They understood that something big would happen that year, but their opinions went too far.
Organizations chosen by God dont give opinions, they give facts.
onewithhim wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:04 pm They DID get one thing right.....something big did happen; it was the end of the "times of the nations," that is the time that Jerusalem (or God's people) would be mercilessly bullied by the nations. According to Bible chronology, that year would be 1914, the year that God's own Kingdom would once again interfere with what the nations were doing and guide His people in an unprecidented work of preaching the Kingdom to all the nations. In this, the Lord's Day, the end would come, but we don't know exactly when. If you want to argue with this, have someone show you the Bible chronology. Or I will if you've stopped talking to JWs.
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #29

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #23]
To this day, Jehovahs Witnesses still hold that 1975 marked 6000 years since the man's creation according to bible chronology ...
If JW's believe that humans were "created" in 4025 BC based on biblical Chronology, does this not also mean that they would believe the universe was "created" at that same time (within a week or so)?

Since we know with certainty that modern humans, and especially the universe, are far, far older than this (about 2 orders of magnitude for Homo sapiens, and about 6 orders of magnitude for the universe), how do you justify such early dates when we know they cannot be even remotely correct?

Or are you only stating that such an early "creation" date is described by biblical chronology (correct, of course), but not implying that JW's actually believe that such a date for "creation" is factual? All of my late mother's family were JW's and I watched them argue this point amongst themselves countless times and never agree on an answer. Are JW's bona-fide young earth creationists?
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

Post #30

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:12 pm DID JEHOVAHS WITNESSES PRONOUNCE A FALSE PHROPHECY REGARDING 1914?
No. The Jehovah's have never claimed to offer prophecy only opinion on existing prophecy.
Wrong opinions. Im sure Jesus is/was aware of all Bible prophecies that you speak of; yet he still claimed that he did not know.

So, the real "truth" (Jesus) did not know....but the fake "truth" (WTS) knows?
They correctly understood, many decades in advance, that 1914 would prove to be pivotal in human history (It was indeed the year the first world war would start). They were wrong about what those events would mean for God's people.[/indent]
Well, if they had predicted an actual world war set to take place in 1914, then I will be more impressed.

But they didn't.
To backpeddle means to change an opinion that one had before. If humans never changed their opinions when they see they are wrong we would still be in the dark ages. There is nothing reprehensible about recognising one's own errors.
But they did backpeddle, and I provided references stating such.
DID JEHOVAHS NOT REFUSE TO CHANGE THEIR OPINIONS IN A JULY ARTICLE 1894?

One cannot be expected to change ones opinion if one is convinced one is right. This statsment was made many years before 1914 (the year in question) and the publishers of the Watchtower saw no reason to change their position at the time of publishing. If was not a case of stubbonly sticking to a wrong view or delaying a correction but being convInced of a belief.
It is easy to stick to a falsehood when the falsehood is years from being exposed as just that; a falsehood.

King Nebuchadnezzar recognized this, which is why he set the stakes higher for all of astrologers and wise man throughout his kingdom as it related to them interpreting his dream.

Read the story of Daniel, and you will catch my drift.

Jehovahs Witnesses never deny they said what they have published or try and shift the error. Rather they recognize they were wrong when they see that is the case and try to learn from their mistakes.
Um, the references that I provided says otherwise.
Let the individiual, group or organisation that has never had to do the above, cast the first stone.
Yes, but we are talking about Jehovah's Witnesses right now.

And besides, JW's always like to make it seem as if they are above and beyond every other Christian group/denomination, as if they are so much superior in their efforts and message...

But now all of a sudden, when it comes to something like this; "we are just like everyone else".

Cant have it both ways.
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