Jehovah's Witnesses: False Prophecies

[We_Are_VENOM]

.

First off, let me preface this by saying the following..

1. As mentioned on another thread, I have many years invested in dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's), from family, to friends, to strangers. I am very familiar with them and their theology.

2. I am beginning a series of threads attacking their "Christian" theology and doctrine. This one, as titled, deals with Jehovah's Witnesses and their false prophecies.

3. I have beef with, not only JW's, but ANYONE of whom I believe to be spreading false Christian doctrine. This includes, but not limited to...

A.) Mormons
B.) Catholics
C.) World Mission Society Church of God
D.) Hebrew Israelites

Jehovah's Witnesses are just one of many false Christian denominations. But, we are talking about Jehovah's Witnesses for now.

So, the question is ultimately; Why do I feel as if Jehovah's Witnesses are false teachers? There are many reasons, and one of those reasons is their many failed attempts at predicting prophecy.

Before I continue on post #2, keep in mind that future threads in this series will go straight to the gusto, with no preface.

Just FYI.

[We_Are_VENOM]

If JW's believe that humans were "created" in 4025 BC based on biblical Chronology, does this not also mean that they would believe the universe was "created" at that same time (within a week or so)?

Since we know with certainty that modern humans, and especially the universe, are far, far older than this (about 2 orders of magnitude for Homo sapiens, and about 6 orders of magnitude for the universe), how do you justify such early dates when we know they cannot be even remotely correct?

First off, we do not "know" anything.

There are plenty of young earth creationists (YEC) out there who can go toe-to-toe with you and/or any scientist as it pertains to the reliability of scientific dating methods (like carbon dating, the main one).

Well actually, we do know something...that God did it (Gen 1:1).

Or are you only stating that such an early "creation" date is described by biblical chronology (correct, of course), but not implying that JW's actually believe that such a date for "creation" is factual? All of my late mother's family were JW's and I watched them argue this point amongst themselves countless times and never agree on an answer. Are JW's bona-fide young earth creationists?

God did it. That is what we (JW's and I), are saying.

Whether he did it 6000 years ago, or 14.7 billion years ago, he did it.

[We_Are_VENOM]

Scripturally speaking there is nothing "arrogant" about believing one has found the truth.



Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe they are the source of truth, only that they have come to understand and love what they believe to be bible truths and are doing their best to live up to that privilege.

DO JEHOVAHS WITNESSES CLAIM TO BE THE TRUTH?

No, that is not an expression you will find in our literature. We believe we "have" the truth (as in, we have found the truth (see above). We believe we have been chosen as a body/ an organisation to represent true Christianity and teach bible truths to others. But it's Gods word (which contains truths revealed through Christ) that *IS* truth. Jesus alone as Gods spokesman can claim to be the truth. Accusations that JWs claim such a position for themselves are entirely baseless.

IS IT NOT WRONG TO SAY ONE HAS THE TRUTH?

Not scripturally, no.

JOHN 4:14 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

But whoever drinks from the water that I will give him will never get thirsty again—ever! In fact, the water I will give him will become a well of water springing up within him for eternal life."”


Figuratively speaking, Jesus himself explained that the truths he taught are not something static, but if applied become a internal force for good, stimulating believers to speak and act in line with Gods holy spirit. In short scripturally, saying one HAS the truth (within them) is neither neither bad nor arrogant.

CONCLUSION Most people that claim to be Christians today do not believe God has an earthly organisation or that he has appointed a "faithful and discreet slave" (Mat 24:45) to the office of oversight within; but both notions are entirely scriptural. It is not presumtuous or inappropriate to use expressions such as "being in" or "having the truth" as these are biblical ideas that in no way challenges Jesus position as the chief agent of truth.

Did Jesus say that I need to be a Jehovah's Witness to be saved? No.

Instead, he said that eternal life is through him. (John 6:40).

Did Jesus say that I have to go through the WTS to get to the Father? No.

Instead, he said that to get to the Father, you must go through him. (John 14:6)

Did the Bible say that we must place our faith in the governing body of the WTS? No.

The Bible states that our faith must be in Jesus. (Romans 10:8-9).

According to the Bible, I dont need any "truth" besides Jesus.

If I have Jesus, I have the truth...and I dont need to belong to any man-made organization to achieve truth.

The Bible makes no mention of Jehovah's Witnesses being God's organization, period.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #32]

First off, we do not "know" anything.

Is that the royal "we"? If so then I won't argue.

There are plenty of young earth creationists (YEC) out there who can go toe-to-toe with you and/or any scientist as it pertains to the reliability of scientific dating methods (like carbon dating, the main one).

Carbon dating is only good to about 40,000 years due to the half life of 14-C, but if you mean radiometric rating using other available isotopes (which cover much longer time periods) then the reliability has been proven beyond any doubts. But that was not my question to JW's.

Well actually, we do know something...that God did it (Gen 1:1).

Gen 1:1 certainly makes that claim, but was this event some 6000 years ago or some 4.6 billion (earth), or some 13.7 billion (universe ... much less certain)?

Whether he did it 6000 years ago, or 14.7 billion years ago, he did it.

The question wasn't "who did it", but the time frame ... which is crucially important. If this "creation" event was only some 6000 years ago then it easily proven to be false (via geology, archeology, biology, and most other "ologies"). If it was millions, or billions, of years ago then it is a very different situation. A biblical literalist must be a young earth creationist (YEC) as far as I know, and my question was whether JW's are in that category, or not.

[JehovahsWitness]

Did Jesus say that I need to be a Jehovah's Witness to be saved?

STRAWMAN: Why are you asking that of me? Are you claiming Jehovah's Witnesses say this? Jehovah's Witnesses teach that it is only through Jesus we are saved (John 6:40).

Did Jesus say that I have to go through the WTS to get to the Father?

STRAWMAN: Do Jehovah's Witnesses ? No. Jehovahs Witnesses teach that the only mediator between God and man is Jesus (John 14:6)




FURTHER READING : Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Feel That They Are the Only People Who Will Be Saved?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/who-saved/



RELATED POSTS

What role does religion play in salvation?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 44#p799144

[JehovahsWitness]

Scripturally speaking there is nothing "arrogant" about believing one has found the truth.

According to the Bible, I dont need any "truth" besides Jesus.

Jesus said Gods Word is truth. Do you not need it?.




JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

RELIGIOUS TRUTH, THE TRUE RELIGION and ...JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

[JehovahsWitness]

DO WE NEED GOD'S ORGANISATION?

... I dont need to belong to any man-made organization to achieve truth.

One does not "achieve" truth, as if an imperfect human can make truth himself, one FINDS truth. If you do not want to be part of God's organised FAMILY then that is your choice, but the bible reveals God has both a heavenly and an earthy organisation. Paul described the earthly part as a body. Jesus referred to it as "the church".

Did the Bible say that we must place our faith in the governing body of the WTS?

Do Jehovahs witnesses? Jehovahs Witnesses put their faith in Jesus. (see Romans 10:8-9).The bible also however says however Christians must obey those taking the lead amongst them.

The Bible makes no mention of Jehovah's Witnesses being God's organization, period.

The Isaiah 43:10. Period.




FURTHER READING

Do You Need Organized Religion?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... -religion/

Does a Great Heavenly Organization Exist?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1972164

RELATED POSTS

Do the teachings and philosophies of Jesus as expressed in the Gospels,
indicate he intented to start a "new [organised] religion"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 45#p792645

Can the first century church be rightly described as "an organised religion"?
viewtopic.php?p=1062104#p1062104

Were the first century Christians an organized, unified community?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 34#p885434

Do we need to belong to an organisation to worship God? [This post]
viewtopic.php?p=1044986#p1044986

What role does religion play in salvation?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 44#p799144

Does God have a heavenly organisation ?
viewtopic.php?p=1023112#p1023112

What expressions are used to described those that will go to heaven to rule as KINGS with Jesus?
viewtopic.php?p=1022185#p1022185

Why are Jehovah's Witnesses delighted when their organisation changes their beliefs?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 31#p951631

RELATED POSTS

Is infallibility a condition of "being lead by God's spirit"?
viewtopic.php?p=1045270#p1045270

Is there any evidence Jehovahs Witnesses are being guided by God's spirit ?
viewtopic.php?p=1045275#p1045275

What do Jehovahs Witnesses mean when they speak of "the truth"?
viewtopic.php?p=998018#p998018

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

ORGANISATION, ORGANISATIONAL INFALLIBILITY and ...RELIGIOUS TRUTH

[JehovahsWitness]

DID JEHOVAHS WITNESSES PRONOUNCE A FALSE PHROPHECY REGARDING 1914?

No. The Jehovah's have never claimed to offer prophecy only opinion on existing prophecy.

Wrong opinions.

Yes. So? So WHAT?! Is having a wrong opinion a capital offense?

Im sure Jesus is/was aware of all Bible prophecies that you speak of; yet he still claimed that he did not know.So, the real "truth" (Jesus) did not know....but the fake "truth" (WTS) knows?

There is no such thing as "fake truth", that's an oxymoron.


STRAWMAN Jehovahs Witnesses have never claimed to know something Jesus did not. They have expresses (somewhat over enthusiasticly at times) what they believe, their opinions, regarding to revealed prophecies. Like Peter, they were wrong and have been duly corrected. Rather a Peter than a Judas!


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

THE DAY AND THE HOUR

...Jesus said that he did not know the time or day (Mark 13:32), so for the Watchtower and Tract Society to come forth with these bold predictions and being so adamant about the year, I'm sure is a direct slap in the face of Jesus.

Not at all. Firstly, there are a number of what we call "time prophecies" in the bible, ie prophecies that would enable the reader to discern in advance, the year of a particular event. Jehovahs Witnesses long understood that the Daniel Chapter 4 was one such prophecy. They were wrong as to what the year would mean for them and only with hindsight did they understand it was the beginning not the end of the last days (they never claimed to know the day or the hour ie the exact date ).

That said those early bible students (as Jehovahs Witnesses were then known) showed admirable qualities. I'm sure Jesus was pleased they were attentive to the times and happy they corrected their views when needed without (as was the case with so many "adventist" movements) giving up. Jehovahs Witnesses are I believe the people whose attitude Jesus rewarded with continued enlightenment(see Daniel 12:1)





JW


RELATED POSTS

Is it possible to pinpoint the exact DATE this present system will be destroyed?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 23#p891423

Have Jehovahs Witnesses ever claimed to KNOW the exact
day and hour of the destruction of the world system?
viewtopic.php?p=1044988#p1044988

Did Jesus indicate Christians should not seek to interpret any time prophecies?
viewtopic.php?p=1010233#p1010233

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , FALSE PROPHETS and ... THE LAST DAYS

[JehovahsWitness]

DOES HAVING THE TRUTH MEAN BEING INFALLIBLE?

Jehovahs Witnesses are not Catholics, there is no biblical basis to conclude Gods chosen people will always be right.

He was still wrong, though. Look, YOU guys are the ones going around saying that you are the "truth".

In Jehovah's Witness vernacular, "having" the truth means accepting the body of bible truths as revealed in scripture through Jesus and living up to one's conviction. For more on this point see post #23 linked HERE
viewtopic.php?p=1044948#p1044948 Neither on an individual nor an organisational level does it imply infallibility.

Do the Jehovah's Witness "leadership" claim infallibility?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 01#p840101

JW's always like to make it seem as if they are above and beyond every other Christian group/denomination, as if they are so much superior in their efforts and message...

As a group/organisation we believe are superior in their efforts and message. We believe we have the truth and belong to the only True Christians organisation on earth today. That however does not mean we are perfect or that we will not make mistakes.

Cant have it both ways.

Scripturally, we can. God has used imperfect people who at times have made terrible errors in judgement in the past and biblically there is no reason to assume that is not the case today. I often say, we have made mistakes but unlike the churches of Christendom, we havent gotten in bed with them.




JEHOVAHS WITNESS




RELATED POSTS

Do Jehovahs Witnesses claim that their organization has a monopoly on truth?
viewtopic.php?p=840124#p840124

Do Jehovahs Witnesses believe theirs is the only true religion?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 15#p868315

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

TRUTH, THE TRUE RELIGION and ...JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

[JehovahsWitness]

CAN GODS ORGANISATION MAKE MISTAKES ?

I don't expect inaccuracies, misjudgments, and falsehoods.

Are you God? God's people only have to live up to his expectations not yours. No one can prove Jehovahs Witnesses to have lied or promulgated what they know to be "falshoods" on the contrary, their history has been marked by a continual process of self corrections and adjustments in line with duly revealed truths.

God does not direct inaccuracies.

That is true; but biblically he allows for them and forgives those that promote them if he judges them to be worthy of such mercy.

If your organization was really under the direction of God, no inaccuracy would result from such direction

No inaccuracy have resulted from divine direction; inaccuracirs have arisen from not seeing clearly what direction God wanted (compare Proverbs 4:18)

Organizations chosen by God dont give opinions, they give facts.

Really? Says who?! What scripture do you have to support this conclusion.



JW