#1 Jesus on hell

[Wootah]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?v ... 18%3A21-35

21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down [a]at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [c]his trespasses.”

Jesus tells a parable where the master actually tortures the unforgiving servant until he pays all that was due to him and after the parable says God will do this to each of us if we do not forgive each other.

* You can't torture a dead person or an annihilated person, so we know we have to be alive to be tortured.
* We can't pay our debt against God so we know the punishment is eternal.

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?

[myth-one.com]

There is a natural body , and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44) Which one is mankind?

For some of us, hopefully you included, even in this life here under the sun, the answer is a resounding yes. You probably won't get that, but that's okay.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

Mankind is a "Yes"?

"Yes" is not a type of body.

The two possible answers are natural and spiritual.

Please guess again.

[PinSeeker]

Mankind is a "Yes"? "Yes" is not a type of body.

LOL!!! Uh, no... LOL!!! Ah... yeah... I needed a good laugh today. Thanks for that...

The two possible answers are natural and spiritual. Please guess again.

No need. Again, for some of us, in this life, yes. I'll add this, because I think it will help you get what I'm saying: For others, they are still only of the natural.

Grace and peace to you.

[PinSeeker]

To piggyback on 2timothy316's post, here is really all we need:

• "So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one."

This is the very same Paul who wrote in Ephesians the following:

• "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ -- by grace you have been saved -- and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus."

This is the first resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 --

• "They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years... This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power..."

Grace and peace to all.

[myth-one.com]

Do you know where a person is when they are not under the sun? "He returns to the ground", under the dirt. That's not rocket science.

That's just the body. The Bible is very clear throughout that one's being is not merely the body.

Yes, the Bible states clearly that there are two type of bodies:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

Which one is mankind?

Here is 1 Cor 15:44 in context. (I know pinseeker is a fan of a scripture in context)
Let's all read it carefully.

"Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, there is another flesh of cattle, another flesh of birds, and another of fish. And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, one star differs from another star in glory. So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, what is spiritual is not first. What is physical is first, and afterward what is spiritual. The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven." - 1 Cor 15:39-47

What do we read here? I'm not going to add any commentary. I'm going to let this scripture set just like it is.

I'll add a little complimentary -- although none is really needed.

Paul is writing to the Christians in Corinth, and is comparing the bodies of dead and buried Christians with the new bodies they will be resurrected with at the Second Coming.

This scripture is not complicated.

The Christian body that is sown like a seed, or buried is:

1. corruptible
2. dishonored
3. weak
4. and a natural body.

This is the natural body which is buried like a seed, or sown, when we die.

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up with:

1. incorruptible
2. glorified
3. powerful
4. spiritual bodies

This is exactly what the above verses state!

Read them again several times if you must to confirm their simple truth.

===========================================================

Man is a natural bodied being, and believers will be resurrected with everlasting spiritual bodies.

The two body types do not mix. The natural comes first and the spiritual body comes last for believers:

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (I Corinthians 15:46)

The natural body comes first and the spiritual body comes last. They are different and are never merged together at anytime in the scriptures! All men are born as natural or physical flesh and blood bodies, and those who believe in Jesus will be born again as spiritual bodies when Jesus returns!

It's so simple.

[PinSeeker]

Man is a natural bodied being, and believers will be resurrected with everlasting spiritual bodies.

No, man has a natural, sinful nature. This is the "old man" Paul speaks of in 2 Corinthians. But for us Christians, we no longer have only the natural sinful nature, but now the spiritual nature, the "new man," as Paul puts it. Because we still have the natural nature, though, this is why we still sin. But the spiritual nature is at war with the natural. This is the conflict within us that Paul speaks of. Paul exhorts us to "put off the old man and put on the new." This is our struggle against sin in this life. The great thing is, the old is passing away, and one great day it will be gone completely and we will sin no more... we will be just like Christ Jesus.

The natural body comes first and the spiritual body comes last.

Well, the natural comes first, and the spiritual nature comes after... for some of us.

They are different and are never merged together at anytime in the scriptures!

Oh but they are. For some of us. Not "bodies," but natures. This is exactly All men are born as natural or physical flesh and blood bodies, and

...those who believe in Jesus will be born again as spiritual bodies when Jesus returns! It's so simple.

Well, I agree that it's simple, but not in the way that you suppose. Yes, when Jesus returns, we will be rid of our old sinful nature... it will have completely passed away, and only our spiritual nature will remain; we will be completely of the Holy Spirit, fully sanctified. What a great day that will be.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

See Below.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #176]

I don't care about your nature.

I Corinthians 15 does not contain the word "nature."

It's concerned with type of bodies.

They are real things!

Spiritual bodies last forever, natures may vary or disappear completely.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #154]

Ah, the "torture" meme again... Well, this conversation has been a bit torturous..

Especially as at least two posters on these "hell" threads have wriggled their way with the wriggler, "their worm".

Some of us squirmed as we found ourselves reading what were fantasy and folly rather than food in due season.

Grace and peace to all.

[myth-one.com]

Man is a natural bodied being, . . .

No, man has a natural, sinful nature.

Then man is a natural bodied being with a natural, sinful nature.

[Bust Nak]

Your denial is the problem.

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