myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:55 pm
PinSeeker wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:41 pm
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Replying to myth-one.com in post #116]
Do you believe God to have lied to Adam and Eve in the following verse?
"...but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Genesis 2:17)
If you do not think God lied, then what do you think He meant? What really happened when Adam and Eve ate? I mean, we can all read Genesis 3 and plainly see that Adam and Eve remained physically alive in full existence, even when expelled from Eden. But did they die, as God promised them they would, in that very day? Or not? Did He lie to them?
A day to God is like a thousand years.
LOL!! Okay, are referring to Psalm 90 and to Peter's referral to Psalm 90 (whether you know it or not). But you're excluding the other half of that same verse (2 Peter 3:8), which says... well I'll quote the whole thing;
- "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
David puts it this way in Psalm 90:4 (and this is actually a prayer of Moses):
- "For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night."
Yes, one day is
like ~ or
as ~ a thousand years,
and a thousand years like ~ or
as ~
one day. I added the bolding and the underlining to make two points, and those are that 1.) to God, time has no real relevance to him one way or the other, that it may seem to us that what He's doing may be taking him a long, long time, but to Him, the great I AM, it is as if it is already done; God is the potentate (creator, autocratic ruler) of time, and 2. ) a thousand years, while
like a day to Him ~ a small amount of time, even no real passing of time at all ~ is still to us a thousand years and not a day; a day is still 24 hours long. Moses and David and Peter are all acknowledging the same thing, making the same point, that
God ~ though it may sometimes seem like it to us ~ does not delay in carrying out His plans. They are in no way conveying to us that a thousand years is
actually a day, or that a day is
actually a thousand years, to anybody, even God. So no, when God said to Adam and Eve (in Genesis 2:17) that if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they would die that very day, He actually meant they would die that very day.
Hey, God says He created the universe in six days. Does that really mean it took Him 6000 years? Of course not, but by your "logic," that would be the case. God also says Jesus was in the tomb three days. Does that mean He was really resurrected 3000 years after His crucifixion? Of course not, but by your "logic," that would be the case.
I wholeheartedly agree that God cannot lie, but that is ~ in effect ~ what you are saying. Either that, or that He was merely mistaken. But, of course, neither is the case.
myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:55 pm
PinSeeker wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:41 pm
See, it strikes me as a great irony that you accuse folks of believing Satan's lie to Eve. Even Eve knew full well what God had said in Genesis 2:17, because she repeated it to Satan in Genesis 3:3. However, in response, Satan did not lie to Eve, per se, but
deceived her, (as we learn from Paul later) into disbelieving what God had said in Genesis 2:17. And of course Satan succeeded in that deception. His deception to Eve was that God was lying in Genesis 2:17, and some are still falling victim to that same deception. Adam and Eve did indeed die, that very day, just as God told them, so we know from very early in the Bible
at the very least that true death is something other than non-existence.
What are you even talking about?
You understand, myth-one; you're just avoiding the question above, or refusing to face up to what God has actually said.
myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:55 pm
The serpent told Eve ye shall not surely die... He said she would never die!
No, he was trying to get Eve to think that what God said, that Eve had just repeated to him, was untrue. He was trying to get her to believe that she would not die in that very day. So Eve was deceived, as Paul later says (2 Timothy 2:14 ~ "
...the woman was deceived..."), so Satan was successful in his deception. But still, God did not lie about what would happen
that very day that they ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They died, just like God said they would, not 1000 years later, but that very day. So, yet again, true death is unmistakably something different to God than what you suppose it to mean. True death ~ 1.) the death that Adam and Eve both died that very day they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, 2.) the death that all men and women are born into when they enter into this life, and 3.) the second death ~ is unmistakably
not mere cessation of existence.
myth-one.com wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:55 pm
Satan wants mankind to believe the lie of mankind's immortality. The immortal soul myth... You believe it also. The lie is that she and all mankind are born with an immortal soul.
You continue to confuse/conflate two entirely different things, myth-one (and you are not alone in this, obviously).
Immortality and
eternality are two entirely different things/concepts:
1.)
The physical body is mortal, of course, and not immortal. The soul, or the self, however, cannot be referred to as mortal or immortal. Paul asks in Romans 7, "Who will deliver me from this body of death?" So from that we should easily see that our selves and our bodies are two different things. In this life ~ and after the resurrection to come, actually ~ The self merely inhabits the body, which is the "garment of skin" that we ~ our
selves ~ are "clothed" with, as we read in Genesis 3:21. So a soul cannot be referred to as mortal or immortal; no one is doing that. Only the body can be referred to as mortal or immortal, and we all know that no body is immortal.
2.)
We ~ our selves ~ are eternal, because we ~ all of us, believer and unbeliever alike ~ are made in the image of God.
Grace and peace to you.