Diagoras wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:33 pm
When scientists have investigated nature, they've discovered that the universe is governed by natural laws, not by any deity.
Sure, but the creation of the universe and the natural laws had some origin, which I attribute to God.
When the Bible has been studied, it's been shown to all have been written by men (and from a logical point of view, can't avoid a circular argument for the existence of God).
Yes, for the purposes of this debate, the Bible is written by men.
God 'expressing his manifestations through people' - as the remaining method - is a rather vague concept, so perhaps you could show some strong evidence to back up this claim?
God manifesting himself through people is not central to any argument I'm making in this thread. It's only in reference to a side comment about seeking for truth.
All our conversation on the matter of direct communication up to this point has pointed to a lack of evidence.
You mean currently
or in the past
about God directly communicating with people? If you mean currently, then the only thing I've offered is dreams by Muslims. If in the past, then the primary exhibit would be Jesus on earth as God's direct communication with man.
How could someone reliably distinguish a dream 'about' God from a dream 'from' God? And how can 'reports' of such be in any way considered 'direct communication'?
If Muslims who dream about Jesus have never heard of Jesus before, how could that have happened if not from God?
I'm trying to approach the subject from a logical point of view: what exactly is limiting God from showing himself?
It hints at the omnipotence problem because it's a loaded question
and not really a logical question. So, any answer to this is pointless.
As far as I can tell, there's no logical reason why he couldn't.
Sure, but it doesn't mean he should
If we're allowed 'bottom lines', then mine is that God doesn't directly communicate with people in the present on Earth. So, it's like it's out of God's desire or power to not directly communicate with everyone.
Well, you have people all the time claiming to hear directly from God, and they've even visited this forum or even currently participating on this forum. What's to say they haven't heard from God? Why would you dismiss their claims?
Maybe try instead to see it as being less a burden, and more 'fulfilling about finding a better understanding of the world'?
I mean burden as in burden of proof
. Your assumption here is I'm not out to seek truth. If I wasn't out to seek truth, this forum would not be setup the way it is. Rather, it would just be another forum where only my religious beliefs are allowed and everything else is stifled. Instead, what is valued here is evidence and arguments, regardless of the belief.
TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:25 pm
excuse the clip just to the response to me, specifically.
No need to state this. This is normal course for debates here.
I'd Thought you were defending the Bible as reliable enough fact. Maybe I got you wrong.
I said this...
otseng wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:00 pm
I believe in the authority of the entire Bible and accept many of the fundamentalist/conservative interpretations of the Bible (literal 6 days of creation, literal Adam/Even, global flood, virgin birth, miracles of Jesus, bodily resurrection, etc).
Pretty much all the major doctrines of Christianity I accept. Minor doctrines such as eschatology I'm agnostic and don't really have a position.