The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[myth-one.com]

For what purpose do physical bodied human beings continue to live on the earth?

To fulfill Gods original purpose for humans.

The original purpose of humans is to replace the angels who left their first estate -- the earth.

The angels' first estate was heaven.

Not the ones created and assigned to care for the earth.

They looked down on women on the earth and left heaven to be with them. See:

Genesis 6:1-4 (You'll notice that there is a distinction between "men" and "the sons of the true God" in verse 4.)
II Peter 2:4,5
Jude 6
I Peter 3:19,20

Yeah, the asexual angels assaulting the sexy human women -- with what?

[Miles]

The original purpose of humans is to replace the angels who left their first estate -- the earth.

Whether it was a replacement or not, Gods stated purpose was that hiuans reproduce and fill the earth, taking care of it and the animals.

And boy did he kick himself in the butt for going through with that one.

Genesis 6:6
And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.

The Lord was sorry that he had made people on the earth. It made him very sad in his heart.

Then it repented the Lord, that he had made man in the earth, and he was sorry in his heart.

The Lord was very sad that he had made human beings on the earth. His heart was filled with pain.

.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Miles in post #222]

And boy did he kick himself in the butt for going through with that one.

OK, God has a "heart."

But a butt and foot?

Can you quote a biblical reference?

[JehovahsWitness]

DOES REVELATION 14 :4 SHOW DISTAIN FOR WOMAN?

Revelation 14:3-5

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The above scripture shows no distain for women or sex. The author uses fornication (the only kind of sex that biblically defiles a person) as a metaphor for spiritual immorality. The "defilement" would have been the same regardless of which sex (or species) they would have had fornication with. If they had committed sexual immorality with a man they would have "defiled themselves with men". If they had committed sexual immorality with an animal they would have "defiled themselves with animal". As it is the author chooses "women"but makes no statement that such decfilement was not possible with man or beast. In short The defilement is not found in the SEX of the partner but in the illegitimacy of the sexual contact.

Then why only mention WOMEN mentioned here ? Because in these verses the entire group (which in reality included both men and women resurrected To spirit life) is presented metaphorically as men. The point is made without burdening the metaphor with unnecessary detail.


WHY ARE THEY SPOKEN OF AS VIRGINS?

This is not to denegrade sex or to imply sex (within godly marriage) is bad, but rather to highlight that this class of people have remained spiritually dedicated to their calling. Scripturally, a person should ideally be a virgin before marriage, guarding their virginity for their marriage partner, so the metaphor is that this group have successfully kept themselves apart from the spiritual corruption of Satans world and have remained dedicated to their goal of dying faithful to subsequently be given in a pure uncompromised state to Jesus.

CONCLUSION Revelation 14 shows absolutely no distain for sex or women, but rather uses fornication and virginity as metaphors to illustrate the path spirit anointed born again Christians have lead to be united in heaven with their King.

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WOMEN , SEXISM and ... THE 144, 000

[JehovahsWitness]

Q. Who are the 144,000 suppose to rule over?

They will rule over this our entire planet earth inhabited by the rest of faithful mankind. Think of the 144,000 like the the 650 members of the British Parliament , who do the 650 rule over ? They rule over the 60 million people living in the United Kingdom. In the same way the 144,000 will rule over all the people living on earth.







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HEAVEN , GOD'S KINGDOM and ... THE 144, 000

[onewithhim]

....why are those humans who inherit the Kingdom of God upgraded to angelic beings?

A small number of humans (144,000) have been selected by God to rule with Jesus from heaven in his kingdom government. The rest of mankind will be subjects of that government living forever on this our planet earth.

NB : This "little flock" of born again Christians are resurrected To a position superior to the angels so it represents a grand privilege.

What I find interesting is that god's preoccupation with sex and his disdain for women again raises its head: Sex with women defile men, and all of the 144,000 anointed males are virgins. Poor guys . . . . And, poor wimen. Virgin or not, they're completely out of the picture.

God's love for women is evident throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures. Also, it is not true that the 144,000 are all men, and it isn't true that they were virgins in the sense that you are taking it. It is clear that those of the 144,000 in the first century included women. There are many talked about in the gospels and the disciples' writings. And when Revelation speaks of "virgins," it is referring to spiritual faithfulness to God and Christ, unlike the world empire of false religion that is pictured as a Whore on the back of a beast (the governments of the world).

[Miles]

....why are those humans who inherit the Kingdom of God upgraded to angelic beings?

A small number of humans (144,000) have been selected by God to rule with Jesus from heaven in his kingdom government. The rest of mankind will be subjects of that government living forever on this our planet earth.

NB : This "little flock" of born again Christians are resurrected To a position superior to the angels so it represents a grand privilege.

What I find interesting is that god's preoccupation with sex and his disdain for women again raises its head: Sex with women defile men, and all of the 144,000 anointed males are virgins. Poor guys . . . . And, poor wimen. Virgin or not, they're completely out of the picture.

God's love for women is evident throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures. Also, it is not true that the 144,000 are all men,

Consider

Revelation 14:3-4
3 And they sung as it were a new canticle, before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the ancients; and no man could say the canticle, but those hundred forty-four thousand, who were purchased from the earth.

4These are they who were not defiled with women: for they are virgins. These follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, the firstfruits to God and to the Lamb:

So what does "those hundred and forty and four thousand, who were" refer to if it isn't men, when it's "man" that preceds it? It doesn't say "men and women," or "mankind," or "humans," or any other inclusive term, but singles out one sex, "man."


Moreover, we have this little observation:

"There’s a very interesting hidden message (in Hebrew called a remez) in chapter 7 of the book of Revelation, but before I reveal it let’s understand the context in which the list of the 12 tribes is given and why the tribe of Dan is missing.

This list in Revelation 7 identifies the 144,000 witnesses who will preach the gospel and testify of Jesus during the seventieth week of Daniel (Daniel 9). This is a period of seven years that is commonly referred to as the Tribulation. The 144,000 will include 12,000 men selected from 12 tribes. "
source

And this remark

"The Book of Revelation is arguably one of the most influential and yet puzzling books in Christian history. Among the images of Revelation which modern biblical scholars have labeled as the “most puzzling” is that of a multitude of 144,000 male virgins."
source

Plus . . .

"Therefore, the 144,000 are Jewish unbelievers who enter the Tribulation just as the rest of the unbelievers: unaware of the turmoil coming or what lies in store for them personally. Only after the Spirit touches their heart and brings them to faith in Jesus Christ do these men become aware of their commission and purpose in the Tribulation."
source

And

"So when God says he's going to have 12,000 men from each of the twelve tribes ready to serve as evangelists and the great Tribulation."
source

Heck, even the Jehovah's Witnesses recognize that the 144,000 are males:

"Jehovah's Witnesses understand Jesus’ words at John 3:3—"except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"—to apply to the 144,000 who are "born again" as "anointed" sons of God in heaven"
(Source:"Look to Jehovah for Comfort". The Watchtower: 10. November 1, 1996)

All of which back up the conclusion that the 144,000 were men.

and it isn't true that they were virgins in the sense that you are taking it.

In light of Revelation 14:4 where it says " These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
just what do you think "virgin" refers to here, the airline or olive oil?



.

[onewithhim]

I stand by what I posted.

[JehovahsWitness]

Revelation 14:3-4
3 And they sung as it were a new canticle, before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the ancients; and no man could say the canticle, but those hundred forty-four thousand, who were purchased from the earth

So what does "those hundred and forty and four thousand, who were" refer to if it isn't men, when it's "man" that preceds it?

Firstly, as explained the whole thing is a metaphor. Further , the reference to no "man" in verse 3a in Greek is just a general pronoun meaning no one (no person).

It doesn't say "men and women," or "mankind. or "humans" or any other inclusive term, but singles out one sex, "man."

In verse 4 the correspondant word (anthropos) means "human" as in person (male or female)

Bible > Revelation > Chapter 14 > Verse 4


◄ Revelation 14:4 ►

New International Version
These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.

New Living Translation
They have kept themselves as pure as virgins, following the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been purchased from among the people on the earth as a special offering to God and to the Lamb.

English Standard Version
It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb,

New American Standard Bible
These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are celibate. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from mankind as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

Christian Standard Bible
These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, since they remained virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were redeemed from humanity as the firstfruits for God and the Lamb.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
These are the ones not defiled with women, for they have kept their virginity. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They were redeemed from the human race as the firstfruits for God and the Lamb.

Contemporary English Version
All of these are pure virgins, and they follow the Lamb wherever he leads. They have been rescued to be presented to God and the Lamb as the most precious people on earth.

Good News Translation
They are the men who have kept themselves pure by not having sexual relations with women; they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been redeemed from the rest of the human race and are the first ones to be offered to God and to the Lamb.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
These 144,000 virgins are pure. They follow the lamb wherever he goes. They were bought from among humanity as the first ones offered to God and to the lamb.

International Standard Version
They have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins, and they follow the lamb wherever he goes. They have been redeemed from among humanity as the first fruits for God and the lamb.

NET Bible
These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from humanity as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb,

NET Bible
These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from humanity as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb,

New Heart English Bible
These are those who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from among humanity , the first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

Source : https://biblehub.com/revelation/14-4.htm

JW

[Miles]

Revelation 14:3-4
3 And they sung as it were a new canticle, before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the ancients; and no man could say the canticle, but those hundred forty-four thousand, who were purchased from the earth

So what does "those hundred and forty and four thousand, who were" refer to if it isn't men, when it's "man" that preceds it?

Firstly, as explained the whole thing is a metaphor. Further , the reference to no "man" in verse 3a in Greek is just a general pronoun meaning no one (no person).

Don't buy that for a second. For one thing, as I pointed out, even your own organization recognizes its reality and that the people it refers to are males: From post #227.

Heck, even the Jehovah's Witnesses recognize that the 144,000 are males:

"Jehovah's Witnesses understand Jesus’ words at John 3:3—"except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"—to apply to the 144,000 who are "born again" as "anointed" sons of God in heaven"
(Source:"Look to Jehovah for Comfort". The Watchtower: 10. November 1, 1996)

And from the Wikipedia article:

"Jehovah's Witnesses
Main article: The 'anointed' (Jehovah's Witnesses and salvation)" .

"The members of the Governing Body who exercise teaching authority over Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide claim to be among the anointed 144,000, and also consider themselves as a group to be the faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45 and Luke 12:42."

So I fail to see where your "metaphor" fits in.

It doesn't say "men and women," or "mankind. or "humans" or any other inclusive term, but singles out one sex, "man."

In verse 4 the correspondant word (anthropos) means "human" as in person (male or female)
[/qquote]
Well, looking at Revelation 14:4 in the KJV we read:

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

And according to Strong's the origin of "men" is ἄνθρωπος (- anthrōpos), and goes on to note.

The KJV translates Strong's G444 in the following manner: man (552x), not translated (4x), miscellaneous (3x).

Bible > Revelation > Chapter 14 > Verse 4


◄ Revelation 14:4 ►

New International Version
These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.

New Living Translation
They have kept themselves as pure as virgins, following the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been purchased from among the people on the earth as a special offering to God and to the Lamb.

English Standard Version
It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb,

New American Standard Bible
These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are celibate. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from mankind as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

Christian Standard Bible
These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, since they remained virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were redeemed from humanity as the firstfruits for God and the Lamb.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
These are the ones not defiled with women, for they have kept their virginity. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They were redeemed from the human race as the firstfruits for God and the Lamb.

Contemporary English Version
All of these are pure virgins, and they follow the Lamb wherever he leads. They have been rescued to be presented to God and the Lamb as the most precious people on earth.

Good News Translation
They are the men who have kept themselves pure by not having sexual relations with women; they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been redeemed from the rest of the human race and are the first ones to be offered to God and to the Lamb.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
These 144,000 virgins are pure. They follow the lamb wherever he goes. They were bought from among humanity as the first ones offered to God and to the lamb.

International Standard Version
They have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins, and they follow the lamb wherever he goes. They have been redeemed from among humanity as the first fruits for God and the lamb.

NET Bible
These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from humanity as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb,

NET Bible
These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from humanity as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb,

New Heart English Bible
These are those who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from among humanity , the first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

Source : https://biblehub.com/revelation/14-4.htm

AND

◄ Revelation 14:4 ►

KJ21
These are they that were not defiled wit h women, for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

ASVThese are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the first-fruits unto God and unto the Lamb.

AMP
These are the ones who have not been defiled [by relations] with women, for they are celibate. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased and redeemed from among men [of Israel] as the first fruits [sanctified and set apart for special service] for God and the Lamb.

AMPC
These are they who have not defiled themselves by relations with women, for they are [pure as] virgins. These are they who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These are they who have been ransomed (purchased, redeemed) from among men as the firstfruits for God and the Lamb.

BRG
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

DARBY
These are they who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins: these are they who follow the Lamb wheresoever it goes. These have been bought from men [as] first-fruits to God and to the Lamb:

DRA
These are they who were not defiled with women: for they are virgins. These follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, the firstfruits to God and to the Lamb:

GNV
These are they which are not defiled with women: for they are virgins: these follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth: these are bought from men, being the firstfruits unto God, and unto the Lamb.

GNT
They are the men who have kept themselves pure by not having sexual relations with women; they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been redeemed from the rest of the human race and are the first ones to be offered to God and to the Lamb.

PHILLIPS
Then I looked again and before my eyes the Lamb was standing on Mount Sion, and with him were a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written upon their foreheads. Then I heard a sound coming from Heaven like the roar of a great waterfall and the heavy rolling of thunder. Yet the sound which I heard was also like the music of harpists sweeping their strings. And now they are singing a new song of praise before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn that song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth. These are the men who have never defiled themselves with women, for they are celibate. These are the men who follow the Lamb wherever he may go; these men have been redeemed from among mankind as first-fruits to God and to the Lamb. They have never been guilty of any falsehood; they are beyond reproach.

JUB
These are those who are not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These are redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

KJV
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

AKJV
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

TLB
For they are spiritually undefiled, pure as virgins, following the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been purchased from among the men on the earth as a consecrated offering to God and the Lamb.

MEV
These are those who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are those who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

NASB1995
These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

NKJV
These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

NLV
These are men who have kept themselves pure by not being married. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They have been bought by the blood of Christ and have been made free from among men. They are the first ones to be given to God and to the Lamb.

WEB
These are those who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed by Jesus from among men, the first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

WE
They are the people who have not had sex with women. They are clean. They are the people who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They lived among people on earth. They have been bought from the earth. They are the first among men to have been bought for God and the Lamb.

WYC
These it be, that be not defouled with women; for they be virgins. These follow the lamb, whither ever he shall go; these be bought of all men, the first fruits to God, and to the lamb;

YLT
these are they who with women were not defiled, for they are virgin; these are they who are following the Lamb whithersoever he may go; these were bought from among men -- a first-fruit to God and to the Lamb --


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