Whites Go Away?

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Purple Knight
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Whites Go Away?

Post #1

Post by Purple Knight »

Question for Debate: If all the white people moved to Mars, would it hurt anyone, even if they remained racist?

I think racists have, if not a good point, a good question, when they continue to wonder why POCs strive to come to majority-white countries only to be discriminated against.

The reason it's not a good point is because the issue is entangled with resources. People will go where resources are despite the political or social system, so you can't claim, as racists try to claim with this question, that POCs are heading into majority-white countries in order to exploit white guilt and gain by that exploitation, and we can't trust the incredulity that nobody would intentionally go where they're so harshly discriminated against and victimised. Because there is no control group of a majority-white area without disproportionate resources and prosperity, one cannot rule out the possibility that POCs come into an environment where they are victimised because they still expect an overall better life, which of course doesn't negate the discrimination or make it okay. People may move to locations with a high murder rate for some benefit that outweighs the risk, but that doesn't mean don't punish the murderers.

Seeking justice isn't suddenly some impropriety just because you are, overall, better off in the environment where the injustice exists. It might seem like looking a gift horse in the mouth, it might seem rude, but it isn't. The analogy is rightly closer to an abusive parent who claims that because they give their child so much, the child is wrong to report a beating. Even if he came from the house next door where he got worse beatings, no. No. Justice doesn't play quid-pro-quo games or ask that people sacrifice it to return favours. Justice is justice.

That's why I'm asking the hypothetical, and disentangling the question from resources. Imagine all the white people just move away, taking no or very few resources with them. They no longer have direct interaction with Earthlings; they are Martians now, and they're isolationist. They have their own media, and they advise Earthlings not to tune in, and in fact they encrypt anything broadcast that Earthlings might tune into, though of course it's possible to descramble if you're really intent on it; we'll say you can watch Martian TV with a black-market box developed for just such a purpose (they're expensive, because you must pay to maintain a satellite relay, so imagine about $250/month). Even if the Martians go full-on Nazi, railing to each other about how bad all the other races are and how great it is to be white, worst case scenario, most racist possible, does it even matter if they're all gone? Or does their existence in that racist state continue to harm those they discriminate against even while completely removed from those other people?

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Re: Whites Go Away?

Post #2

Post by MBrown60 »

I believe no matter the race it makes no such difference who's the racist nowadays. We have the same access to education and opportunities. Still, we can't avoid the fact that the most progress throughout many centuries was made by whites and Asians. Nowadays it makes no sense to speak of who is more racist since POC are gaining benefits for just being POC. Isn't that racist?

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Re: Whites Go Away?

Post #3

Post by Purple Knight »

MBrown60 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:48 amNowadays it makes no sense to speak of who is more racist since POC are gaining benefits for just being POC. Isn't that racist?
That's like asking if it's injustice for the victim to get more money than the defendant in a civil lawsuit where the defendant has been found to have wronged the victim.

Any extra benefits are supposed to make up for injustice.

But I admit, if you were never part of that injustice, it's (from your perspective) more injustice.

For example, let's say you're a poor white kid growing up in a really bad neighbourhood. You struggled to get decent grades and get into college. You struggled for that as much as anyone else in your school. Then the college selects a POC instead, even though his grades are the same, his situation is the same, because you were supposedly privileged.

Because nobody can assess millions of people case-by-case, I side with the college. I think this was the right thing to do. In large part, making that selection each time makes up for injustice. However, from the narrow perspective of that one child, it created more injustice.

Sometimes, people innocent of crimes get punished. Sometimes, the justice system creates more injustice. But, usually, it creates justice, so it's generally accepted that we should keep it.

The question, though, is if whites were still racist, but they did it on Mars and never bothered anybody, would it still matter?

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Re: Whites Go Away?

Post #4

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #1]
Question for Debate: If all the white people moved to Mars, would it hurt anyone, even if they remained racist?
Imagine all the white people just move away
Here's another question: If the words "all", "white people" and "racist" are used in the contexts above, doesn't that broadly and sweepingly equate being white with being racist?

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Re: Whites Go Away?

Post #5

Post by Purple Knight »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:47 amHere's another question: If the words "all", "white people" and "racist" are used in the contexts above, doesn't that broadly and sweepingly equate being white with being racist?
Yes. All white people are racists. References:

https://www.ocpathink.org/post/whites-w ... ulsa-event



I'm just wondering if it matters so much if all white people are being racist if they do it on the moon where they can't hurt anybody.

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Re: Whites Go Away?

Post #6

Post by Purple Knight »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:47 amHere's another question: If the words "all", "white people" and "racist" are used in the contexts above, doesn't that broadly and sweepingly equate being white with being racist?
Yes. All white people are racists. References:

https://www.ocpathink.org/post/whites-w ... ulsa-event

Link to the second article

I'm just wondering if it matters so much if all white people are being racist if they do it on the moon where they can't hurt anybody.

I'm also wondering if, in a system where every... single... white person... is a racist, not one single individual has escaped the societal dynamic and succeeded in becoming a good person (you know, free of such traits as racism, murder, and rape), if it is reasonable to expect people to start fighting that dynamic and winning.

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Re: Whites Go Away?

Post #7

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #6]

Did you read this part of that article?
Writing in The Atlantic, John McWhorter, a black professor at Columbia University, described White Fragility as “a racist tract” that is “replete with claims that are either plain wrong or bizarrely disconnected from reality.”

McWhorter wrote that the book is “about how to make certain educated white readers feel better about themselves” and that he “cannot imagine that any Black readers could willingly submit themselves to DiAngelo’s ideas while considering themselves adults of ordinary self-regard and strength. Few books about race have more openly infantilized Black people than this supposedly authoritative tome.”

“The problem is that White Fragility is the prayer book for what can only be described as a cult,” McWhorter wrote.

In his review of White Fragility, Matthew C. Taibbi, a longtime liberal journalist, wrote, “DiAngelo isn’t the first person to make a buck pushing tricked-up pseudo-intellectual (expletive) as corporate wisdom, but she might be the first to do it selling Hitlerian race theory. White Fragility has a simple message: there is no such thing as a universal human experience, and we are defined not by our individual personalities or moral choices, but only by our racial category.”

Taibbi writes that White Fragility is “based upon the idea that human beings are incapable of judging each other by the content of their character, and if people of different races think they are getting along or even loving one another, they probably need immediate antiracism training.”

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Re: Whites Go Away?

Post #8

Post by Purple Knight »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:34 pmDid you read this part of that article?
Yes it's a critical article. Even the critics admit that the other side presents a case that all whites are racist.

There are many more critical articles about ideas like White Fragility than there are positive ones.

Did you read the second article? I agree with it but find it unhelpful to suggest that after all that being true, we just need to try harder to make diversity work.

It does seem cultish. It's the cult of the One Solution. Prayer, positive thinking, they're all the same. Oh look you tried my method and failed for the literal billionth time (there are a billion white people, not one of whom succeeded in not being racist). You must just have not tried hard enough, because my method works.

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Re: Whites Go Away?

Post #9

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #8]
I wasn't able to get the link to the second article to work.
Yes it's a critical article. Even the critics admit that the other side presents a case that all whites are racist.
Yes, the critics admit that the other side presents a case, but the critics proceed to refute that case.
(there are a billion white people, not one of whom succeeded in not being racist)
Have you personally encountered every white person? Have you heard or read the comments of every white person? If not, this is a claim to Extraordinary Knowledge, which is a logical fallacy.

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Re: Whites Go Away?

Post #10

Post by Miles »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:35 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:47 amHere's another question: If the words "all", "white people" and "racist" are used in the contexts above, doesn't that broadly and sweepingly equate being white with being racist?
Yes. All white people are racists. References:

https://www.ocpathink.org/post/whites-w ... ulsa-event
Why should anyone care what reporter/journalist Ray Carter, Director of the Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs Center for Independent Journalism, has to say about racism? I certainly don't.

Nonfunctional link.


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