Not Needed By God

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William
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Not Needed By God

Post #1

Post by William »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:02 am
William wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:55 pm

The very idea that יהוה doesn't need assistance flies in the face of all the biblical stories told. Surely you are misrepresenting יהוה in that regard.
There are no biblical stories where God has "needed assistance" he needs noone to accomplish his purpose.

The fact that He has condescended to allow humans to play a part therein does not equates to his being unable to achieved what he wants without them. The bible repeatedly refers to Jehovah as the Almighty, so logically being all powerful an omnipotent God has no need of extra input to do what he wants. If Jehovah delegates its an expression of his love and mercy as the righteous view it as a privilege to be used by God.
QFB Is the idea that an almighty being can do everything without the assistance of anything, logically sound?



.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #61

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

William wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:47 pm [Replying to Revelations won in post #59]
We should all remember that God is not being tested, but we are.
Or - maybe we are god testing itself?

But the statement itself only shows that without 'us' an almighty entity [AME] cannot 'test us' unless you are also arguing that it is logical that it doesn't need us to test us by first creating us and can just test us without us actually existing - because that is what the QFD is asking. Is that logical?
IF it is,
THEN explain how the AME manages to do this.

Note: "God works in mysterious ways" is NOT an explanation. It is simply a statement of ignorance/not knowing and if one does not know [is ignorant] about how an AME is able to do a thing, one cannot also state that 'it is because' without also showing what the process that makes a thing possible/logical, actually is.
It is not there is no understanding, but the "wicked" (lawbreakers), are without insight. (Daniel 12:10).

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #62

Post by William »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:57 pm
William wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:47 pm [Replying to Revelations won in post #59]
We should all remember that God is not being tested, but we are.
Or - maybe we are god testing itself?

But the statement itself only shows that without 'us' an almighty entity [AME] cannot 'test us' unless you are also arguing that it is logical that it doesn't need us to test us by first creating us and can just test us without us actually existing - because that is what the QFD is asking. Is that logical?
IF it is,
THEN explain how the AME manages to do this.


Note: "God works in mysterious ways" is NOT an explanation. It is simply a statement of ignorance/not knowing and if one does not know [is ignorant] about how an AME is able to do a thing, one cannot also state that 'it is because' without also showing what the process that makes a thing possible/logical, actually is.
It is not there is no understanding, but the "wicked" (lawbreakers), are without insight. (Daniel 12:10).
While that is not using the "God works in mysterious ways" non-explanation as a deflection device, "The wicked are without insight" is still a non-explanation deflection device with the addition of "I will judge you as the devil in order not to have to deal with awkward questions which show my beliefs in a truer light."

Non- Explanations do not explain non-explanations.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #63

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

William wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:07 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:57 pm
William wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:47 pm [Replying to Revelations won in post #59]
We should all remember that God is not being tested, but we are.
Or - maybe we are god testing itself?

But the statement itself only shows that without 'us' an almighty entity [AME] cannot 'test us' unless you are also arguing that it is logical that it doesn't need us to test us by first creating us and can just test us without us actually existing - because that is what the QFD is asking. Is that logical?
IF it is,
THEN explain how the AME manages to do this.


Note: "God works in mysterious ways" is NOT an explanation. It is simply a statement of ignorance/not knowing and if one does not know [is ignorant] about how an AME is able to do a thing, one cannot also state that 'it is because' without also showing what the process that makes a thing possible/logical, actually is.
It is not there is no understanding, but the "wicked" (lawbreakers), are without insight. (Daniel 12:10).
While that is not using the "God works in mysterious ways" non-explanation as a deflection device, "The wicked are without insight" is still a non-explanation deflection device with the addition of "I will judge you as the devil in order not to have to deal with awkward questions which show my beliefs in a truer light."

Non- Explanations do not explain non-explanations.
Someone is deflecting. The "mysterious ways" are simply the viewpoint of the wicked per Daniel 12:10. They have no insight, therefore, everything is hidden to them. Much like what is explained in Matthew 13:13. Someone may have eyes and ears, but they still will be unable to perceive. As for judgment, that is left up to the Lord God (Ezekiel 34:22), and the measuring line used will be as to how you judge others (Isaiah 18:28:17). King David judged the "rich man" to the full extent of the law, and was thereby judged to the full extent of the law. There is no such thing as a "truer light". One is either guided by the light, or by darkness. Following an off shade only leads to destruction. One is either a son of the devil, or a son of God. (1 John 3:8-9). One can repent and live, or they can hold onto their shades, and die. (Ezekiel 18:31-32)

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #64

Post by William »

Someone is deflecting.
You are arguing that anyone who does not agree with your particular interpretation of the bible simply have no insight, because they are "a son of the devil" ,therefore, everything is hidden to them?

IF so, then there is the deflection.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #65

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to William in post #48]
And it was one such belief - a claim that it was a FACT that BG condescended to allow humans to exist but the god being almighty could achieve what he wants without them, which appeared questionable.
I've found the only FACT about god is that the it's written about in the bible. Most (all?) everything else is belief and opinion based. Thus, logic isn't applicable, even though, as logical beings, humans try to make sense of it all.
It's not possible, but the trying is part of what makes humans humans IMO.
The claim was made in response to my writing in another thread that the very idea that BG doesn't need assistance flies in the face of all the biblical stories told.
You'll get that in a mystical being that can't be shown to be true and relies entirely on faith.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #66

Post by William »

[Replying to nobspeople in post #65]
The claim was made in response to my writing in another thread that the very idea that BG doesn't need assistance flies in the face of all the biblical stories told.
You'll get that in a mystical being that can't be shown to be true and relies entirely on faith.
The question asked is not to do with the BG actually existing, but whether an AME is able to do everything without creating anything.

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #67

Post by nobspeople »

William wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:29 am [Replying to nobspeople in post #65]
The claim was made in response to my writing in another thread that the very idea that BG doesn't need assistance flies in the face of all the biblical stories told.
You'll get that in a mystical being that can't be shown to be true and relies entirely on faith.
The question asked is not to do with the BG actually existing, but whether an AME is able to do everything without creating anything.
Define BG and AME as used here
Then, what do you think about it?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #68

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

William wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:50 pm
Someone is deflecting.
You are arguing that anyone who does not agree with your particular interpretation of the bible simply have no insight, because they are "a son of the devil" ,therefore, everything is hidden to them?

IF so, then there is the deflection.
I quoted the bible with respect to insight and the lack of insight with respect to the wicked, as recorded in Daniel 12:10. Those who say they do not understand, kind of put themselves in the category of being among the "wicked". As recorded in Matthew 13:13, not all will have eyes to see or ears to hear. That all traces back to Isaiah 6:9 and Daniel 12:10. As per Isaiah 6:11-13, this condition will exist until "cities are devastated and without inhabitant.... yet there will be a tenth portion in it". The scripture is quite clear as to its content, except to those without eyes to see. As we are at the "end of the age", I will refer you to Revelation 16:16-21, whereas this condition will persist until Har-Magedon, the "great tribulation", whereas most will follow their path to "destruction", by following the "false prophets" (Matthew 7:13-25).

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #69

Post by William »

[Replying to nobspeople in post #67]
The question asked is not to do with the BG actually existing, but whether an AME is able to do everything without creating anything.
Define BG and AME as used here
Biblical God and All Mighty Entity
Then, what do you think about it?
I took the example of the biblical idea that BG requires worship from human beings.

I think that if BG as an AME can do everything without the assistance of anything, therefore BG can receive worship from humans without actually creating humans... is not logically sound

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Re: Not Needed By God

Post #70

Post by William »

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #68]
Those who say they do not understand, kind of put themselves in the category of being among the "wicked".
Before you go jumping in that direction it might be a great idea to show that my not seeing logic in the claim that BG as an AME can do everything without anything, is a case of my simply not being able to understand how it can be achieved.

I see no logic in assigning those who do not understand a religious claim being told they are Sons of Satan by those of the religion having no apparent ability to explain their claims in a logical manner.

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