Ten Commandments

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3191
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 821 times

Ten Commandments

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Ask 1000 christians "What, exactly, counts as 'a sin'?" and you'd probably get various answers. Most, somewhere in the conversation, would likely visit the Ten Commandments. Fair enough, I suppose. But are there other things that aren't included in the Ten Commandments - outliers - that are also sin?
Some say it's a sin to smoke, drink, do drugs, curse. Some say those are OK so long as you're not over indulging in them.
Some say it's a sin to kill another human being, while others say it's not if it pertains to justice and or self defense.
Some say it's a sin to blaspheme, yet many can't agree on what that is, exactly.
Some say it's a sin to disobey god, while others say it's not a sin, just not a good idea.
Some say it's a sin to be gay, while others say it's not, but the act it, while others still say being gay is not an issue.
Some say it's a sin to have sex before marriage, while others say it's not, while others still say having sex is a union and thus, dictates being married.

It seems that, if sin separates one from god, it's an important enough concept in which everyone should be able to fully grasp.

So, assuming violating the 10 CMDMTS is a sin, are there other things that are sinful as well? If yes, what are they, exactly? If not, is it safe to say obeying the 10 CMDMTS is a sure-fire way to avoid sin?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 7213
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 1384 times
Been thanked: 1563 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #2

Post by Tcg »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:27 am Ask 1000 christians "What, exactly, counts as 'a sin'?" and you'd probably get various answers. Most, somewhere in the conversation, would likely visit the Ten Commandments. Fair enough, I suppose. But are there other things that aren't included in the Ten Commandments - outliers - that are also sin?
Some say it's a sin to smoke, drink, do drugs, curse. Some say those are OK so long as you're not over indulging in them.
Some say it's a sin to kill another human being, while others say it's not if it pertains to justice and or self defense.
Some say it's a sin to blaspheme, yet many can't agree on what that is, exactly.
Some say it's a sin to disobey god, while others say it's not a sin, just not a good idea.
Some say it's a sin to be gay, while others say it's not, but the act it, while others still say being gay is not an issue.
Some say it's a sin to have sex before marriage, while others say it's not, while others still say having sex is a union and thus, dictates being married.

It seems that, if sin separates one from god, it's an important enough concept in which everyone should be able to fully grasp.

So, assuming violating the 10 CMDMTS is a sin, are there other things that are sinful as well? If yes, what are they, exactly? If not, is it safe to say obeying the 10 CMDMTS is a sure-fire way to avoid sin?
You know I don't see anything in the 10 about premarital sex or gay sex and yet both are considered big no-nos for a number of Christians. Maybe this is based on the writings attributed to Paul?

Another odd thing is the bit about the Sabbath day. Not so much about the argument of whether it should be on Saturday or Sunday, but who really does that? For some it is as busy as any other day. Up in the morning for breakfast. Off to church for Sunday school and the main service. Back home for lunch. Then back to church for evening church.

And just after the big 10 we find some very strange instructions:
Exodus 20:25 If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it. 26 And do not go up to my altar on steps, or your private parts may be exposed.’
Why not some advice about pants or underwear?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3191
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 821 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #3

Post by nobspeople »

Tcg wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:04 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:27 am Ask 1000 christians "What, exactly, counts as 'a sin'?" and you'd probably get various answers. Most, somewhere in the conversation, would likely visit the Ten Commandments. Fair enough, I suppose. But are there other things that aren't included in the Ten Commandments - outliers - that are also sin?
Some say it's a sin to smoke, drink, do drugs, curse. Some say those are OK so long as you're not over indulging in them.
Some say it's a sin to kill another human being, while others say it's not if it pertains to justice and or self defense.
Some say it's a sin to blaspheme, yet many can't agree on what that is, exactly.
Some say it's a sin to disobey god, while others say it's not a sin, just not a good idea.
Some say it's a sin to be gay, while others say it's not, but the act it, while others still say being gay is not an issue.
Some say it's a sin to have sex before marriage, while others say it's not, while others still say having sex is a union and thus, dictates being married.

It seems that, if sin separates one from god, it's an important enough concept in which everyone should be able to fully grasp.

So, assuming violating the 10 CMDMTS is a sin, are there other things that are sinful as well? If yes, what are they, exactly? If not, is it safe to say obeying the 10 CMDMTS is a sure-fire way to avoid sin?
You know I don't see anything in the 10 about premarital sex or gay sex and yet both are considered big no-nos for a number of Christians. Maybe this is based on the writings attributed to Paul?

Another odd thing is the bit about the Sabbath day. Not so much about the argument of whether it should be on Saturday or Sunday, but who really does that? For some it is as busy as any other day. Up in the morning for breakfast. Off to church for Sunday school and the main service. Back home for lunch. Then back to church for evening church.

And just after the big 10 we find some very strange instructions:
Exodus 20:25 If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it. 26 And do not go up to my altar on steps, or your private parts may be exposed.’
Why not some advice about pants or underwear?


Tcg
To your point on Sunday: my ex's grandparents did nothing on Sunday but read and eat. All their food was cooked the day before. No TV watched. They even got on to their daughter for working in the garden on Sundays as that's considered 'work'.
The family is Mormon.
To your points on 'potential other sins': it does seem that anything someone things is 'ew!' is a sin to them and, many times, they think it should be a sin for others.
It would seem odd, but when people are involved, oddities should be expected.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 7213
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 1384 times
Been thanked: 1563 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #4

Post by Tcg »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:26 am
To your point on Sunday: my ex's grandparents did nothing on Sunday but read and eat. All their food was cooked the day before. No TV watched. They even got on to their daughter for working in the garden on Sundays as that's considered 'work'.
The family is Mormon.
To your points on 'potential other sins': it does seem that anything someone things is 'ew!' is a sin to them and, many times, they think it should be a sin for others.
It would seem odd, but when people are involved, oddities should be expected.
Did they have any gatherings for worship on Saturday?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3191
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 821 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #5

Post by nobspeople »

Tcg wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:35 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:26 am
To your point on Sunday: my ex's grandparents did nothing on Sunday but read and eat. All their food was cooked the day before. No TV watched. They even got on to their daughter for working in the garden on Sundays as that's considered 'work'.
The family is Mormon.
To your points on 'potential other sins': it does seem that anything someone things is 'ew!' is a sin to them and, many times, they think it should be a sin for others.
It would seem odd, but when people are involved, oddities should be expected.
Did they have any gatherings for worship on Saturday?


Tcg
Wow. It's been a minute... but I do seem to remember going to their church a few times on Sundays... mornings at least....
But what stands out most is, one time, during their offering, a woman from up front came back to the woman sitting in front of us an gossiped about another woman that was there. She kept going even after the offering was completed. I found that strange for something you'd see in church - at least the churches I've attended.
One time, they had a big televised meeting for a service - guess they do that once a month or something? Several incredible boring old white men spoke (and one younger, rather interesting white man).
Truly, it was different than what I'd experienced up to that time.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

benchwarmer
Guru
Posts: 2129
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:40 am
Has thanked: 1465 times
Been thanked: 554 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #6

Post by benchwarmer »

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

What some don't realize is that not all Christians even have the exact same 10 commandments. i.e. they can't even agree on that.

I'll leave it as a fun exercise for the reader to figure out where the discrepancies are :) (unless of course everyone is stumped and I'll provide the info, just don't want to spoil the fun!)

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 7213
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 1384 times
Been thanked: 1563 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #7

Post by Tcg »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:42 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:35 am
nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:26 am
To your point on Sunday: my ex's grandparents did nothing on Sunday but read and eat. All their food was cooked the day before. No TV watched. They even got on to their daughter for working in the garden on Sundays as that's considered 'work'.
The family is Mormon.
To your points on 'potential other sins': it does seem that anything someone things is 'ew!' is a sin to them and, many times, they think it should be a sin for others.
It would seem odd, but when people are involved, oddities should be expected.
Did they have any gatherings for worship on Saturday?


Tcg
Wow. It's been a minute... but I do seem to remember going to their church a few times on Sundays... mornings at least....
But what stands out most is, one time, during their offering, a woman from up front came back to the woman sitting in front of us an gossiped about another woman that was there. She kept going even after the offering was completed. I found that strange for something you'd see in church - at least the churches I've attended.
One time, they had a big televised meeting for a service - guess they do that once a month or something? Several incredible boring old white men spoke (and one younger, rather interesting white man).
Truly, it was different than what I'd experienced up to that time.
Well, yeah, in most churches the gossiping is done after the meeting.

As far as a day of rest, I don't think it was intended to be a strict "you can't light a fire" kind of thing but more just a general don't do the same work every day. Take a day to chill.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

bjs1
Sage
Posts: 550
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:18 pm
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 155 times

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #8

Post by bjs1 »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:27 am So, assuming violating the 10 CMDMTS is a sin, are there other things that are sinful as well? If yes, what are they, exactly?
Pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth are a few examples.

Sin is less about the actions and more about the heart. Actions that come from hatred are sinful, even though the same action might not be sinful in another setting.

nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:27 am If not, is it safe to say obeying the 10 CMDMTS is a sure-fire way to avoid sin?
No. If someone takes the seat I wanted so I get angry and kick him in the shin, then that is a sin. Shin kick is not on the 10 Commandments.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 9143
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 168 times
Contact:

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #9

Post by 1213 »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:27 am Ask 1000 christians "What, exactly, counts as 'a sin'?"...
I have understood that there is actually only one thing that is sin, that person rejects God. Reason why I think so is that sin is basically the opposite of righteous. And righteous person lives, if he is loyal (faithful) to God.

...He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

...the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:38

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 5636
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 230 times
Contact:

Re: Ten Commandments

Post #10

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
benchwarmer wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:47 am [Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

What some don't realize is that not all Christians even have the exact same 10 commandments. i.e. they can't even agree on that.

I'll leave it as a fun exercise for the reader to figure out where the discrepancies are :) (unless of course everyone is stumped and I'll provide the info, just don't want to spoil the fun!)
Shouldn't matter.

Christ said the two most important commandments are: "Love God with your whole heart, mind, soul"... and "Love your neighbor as yourself". On these two commandments hang all the rest of the law and the prophets.


He also said that if anyone loves Him (and if one loves the Father, one loves the Son... and vice versa), they will remain in His word, keep His commands.

Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.





Peace again to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

Post Reply