The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[JehovahsWitness]

... why 1914?

WHEN WOULD JESUS GATHER THESE CHOSEN RULERS TO HEAVEN?

During the FIRST resurrection*. NOTE that there would be another later (2nd) resurrection for "the rest of the dead" who will not rule with Christ.

REVELATION 20: 4, 5

And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. [... ] And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ+ for 1,000 years. 5 (The rest of the dead+ did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.)

* The first resurrection run from 1914 to just before the war of Harmageddon.





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[2ndpillar2]

... why 1914?

WHEN WOULD JESUS GATHER THESE CHOSEN RULERS TO HEAVEN?

During the FIRST resurrection*. NOTE that there would be another later (2nd) resurrection for "the rest of the dead" who will not rule with Christ.

REVELATION 20: 4, 5

And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. [... ] And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ+ for 1,000 years. 5 (The rest of the dead+ did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.)

* The first resurrection run from 1914 to just before the war of Harmageddon.





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I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but there was no "first resurrection" in 1914, and Christ does not reign from Jerusalem (Revelation 20:4 & Zechariah 14:16). Har-Magedon has not happened. The closest you have is the battle of Megiddo in 1917 in which the Germans and Ottomans were defeated by the British, along with Australia, India, and New Zealand. The nations are still being crushed (Daniel 2), as in the 1967 Israeli war, and Persia has yet to be crushed (Daniel 2), and the kingdom has not been set up with David as king (Ezekiel 37). The "resurrection of Revelation 20:4, is for those without the mark of the beast, and for those who had been beheaded for the Word of God. I kind of think that would preclude your everyday JW. Just because you see people running around like chickens with the heads cut off, does not mean that they are now the chosen of God, and actually hold to the testimony of Yeshua, or the Word of God, which in general, they nail that testimony to a cross.

[2ndpillar2]

Are they not resurrected from their graves into a physical realm to reign with "Christ" (Revelation 20:4)?

No, those that reign within Christ have been invited to do so from heaven Note how Jesus explained the invitation to his Apostles...

JOHN 14:2-3 New International Version

2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am

The citadel/house of David was located on Mount Zion, which is fairly close to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. I imagine it has "many rooms", or they could stay at the nearby Dormition Abbey, or at the nearby tomb of David. There is also an existing David Citadel Hotel which does not require a reservation fee. The "Word of God" will reign over those who are left of the nations (Revelation 19:15) by means of a "sharp sword" and a "rod of iron" from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16). They will be reigning over the nations on earth, on earth.

https://www.booking.com/hotel/il/the-da ... #hotelTmpl

[JehovahsWitness]

I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but there was no "first resurrection" in 1914, and Christ does not reign from Jerusalem (Revelation 20:4 & Zechariah 14:16).

How do you know? Were you in heaven at the time?

There is nothing in the scriptures referenced that counteract the first resurrection starting in 1914. On the contrary scriptures indicate that is exactly when it started. If you propose otherwise use your bible, otherwise you are simply proposing your manmade beliefs which are of no interest to me.





JW

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GOD'S KINGDOM, 1914 and ... THE GENTILE TIMES

[2ndpillar2]

I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but there was no "first resurrection" in 1914, and Christ does not reign from Jerusalem (Revelation 20:4 & Zechariah 14:16).

How do you know? Were you in heaven at the time?

There is nothing in the scriptures referenced that counteract the first resurrection starting in 1914. On the contrary scriptures indicate that is exactly when it started. If you propose otherwise use your bible, otherwise you are simply proposing your manmade beliefs which are of no interest to me.

JW

I did use bible references, and you apparently chose to ignore them. Zechariah 14 is about the LORD bringing the nations against Jerusalem, and the nations being crushed by the "LORD", whereafter, the gold and silver will be gathered from the "surrounding nations", and then the surviving nations (survived from the great tribulation), will come to Jerusalem on the feast of Booths and "worship the King". As per Ezekiel 37:24, the "king" will be David My servant, who will reign over the nations (Revelation 19:15) and the combined sticks of Judah and Ephraim, who will live on the land given to Jacob. The son of man will not come until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29),whereas the sun will be darkened, etc., as stated in Joel 3:15, with respect to the "day of the LORD", and the judgment of the nations (Joel 3:2). The nations depicted in Daniel 2:45 have not all been crushed at the same time; therefore the "kingdom" has not been set up at this time, or in 1914. The feet of iron and clay were crushed as late as 1967 & 73, via the Israeli war. The final dance is still in abeyance. As for your reliance on added snippets of men (Revelation 22:18) and false prophets, well, that would be a problem for those who do so (Matthew 7:13-24), and apparently will lead to their "destruction". Your reliance on the false prophets, is countered by Yeshua when he described the "kingdom" as when the devil will plant his message, the tare seed among the message of the son of man, the wheat seed, in the same field/book (Matthew 13), and the tares were given protection until the "end of the age", at which time they would be the first to be gathered up and burned. We are now at the end of the age, and the angels, the reapers, they are a coming (Matthew 13:30), and their first targets will be the "fat shepherds" (Ezekiel 34), who do not feed or heal the sheep. After the Lord God judges between the sheep, he will set up David My servant as shepherd and prince, and the sheep will no longer be "prey to the nations"/Gentiles (Ezekiel 34:28), and the sheep will live securely. The Jews lost around 6 million people after 1914, and Stalin killed around 5 million Ukrainians by starvation alone, and around 70% of Ukrainians are "Christian". Stalin also killed his young academic followers and other supporters to the tune of more than a million. Where is the "security" in all of that? No, I think you are a victim of indoctrination. https://news.stanford.edu/2010/09/23/na ... de-092310/

[JehovahsWitness]

The nations depicted in Daniel 2:45 have not all been crushed ...

So? So what?!


The destruction of this world system happens after the set up of the kingdom, not before.

PSALM 110 : 2 - Literal Standard Version

YHWH sends the rod of Your strength from Zion, Rule in the midst of Your enemies.

GLOSSARY OF TERMS [END TIMES]




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or

[2ndpillar2]

The nations depicted in Daniel 2:45 have not all been crushed ...

So? So what?!


The destruction of this world system happens after the set up of the kingdom, not before.

PSALM 110 : 2 - Literal Standard Version

YHWH sends the rod of Your strength from Zion, Rule in the midst of Your enemies.

Why are you making my case? King David will rule from his citadel, Mount Zion, which is just south of the Wailing wall in Jerusalem, located on the earth (Zechariah 14:16). And he will rule his enemies, the nations/Gentiles (Revelation 19:15), who were crushed by the "stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver (Persia)", etc., that "will take place in the future". You must first crush your enemies before you rule over them, and that will be on the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-Joel 3:2). As for the spiritual Mount Zion, the mountain of God, no one worships on God's mountain unless they keep His covenant and his Sabbath (Isaiah 56:6). I kind of think you pretty much feel you can avoid both requirements per the false gospel of Grace, by the false prophet Paul. The spiritual kingdom was active on the earth at the time of Yeshua, when his disciples could heal the sick and raise the dead. That is pretty much absent today. The physical kingdom still remains "near, right at the door" (Matthew 24:33), and won't be evident till the coming of the son of man on the clouds (Matthew 24:30-31), at which time his "angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together his elect from the four winds" (Isaiah 27:13), a day "the LORD will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent" (Isaiah 27:1). That time will follow the gathering of the tares and burning them (Matthew 13:30). You might want to consider taking off any colored glasses and reading Scripture, the Law and the prophets, as it is written. It is not wise to try and color in the lines according to your own narrative. The JW's lure seems to be like that of the Muslim's, who promise heaven if you follow their rules, or the Roman Catholics, who give you heaven if you follow Peter's rule, or the Protestant's, who tell you that you surely shall not die, the message of the serpent (Genesis 3:4), and his minion, the false prophet Paul. But go on and keep making my case. The son of man's "enemies" do not reside in heaven, for the devil has already been thrown out, and is now leading the leaders/kings on earth (Revelation 16:13). During the millennium, the devil will be locked in the abyss (Revelation 20:1-2). The "enemies" of Psalm 110:2 will be the "nations" of Revelation 19:15, who will be ruled by a rod of iron.

New American Standard Bible Psalm 110:2
The LORD will stretch out Your strong scepter from Zion, saying, “Rule in the midst of Your enemies.”

[JehovahsWitness]

The nations depicted in Daniel 2:45 have not all been crushed ...

PSALM 110 : 2 - Literal Standard Version

YHWH sends the rod of Your strength from Zion, Rule in the midst of Your enemies.

The kingdom'is set up 1914 before the destruction of the wicked.

NOTE The events "IN HEAVEN" have been UNSEEN to the world's population.


JW

PSALM 110 : 2 - Literal Standard Version

YHWH sends the rod of Your strength from Zion, Rule in the midst of Your enemies.

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viewtopic.php?p=1060859#p1060859

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[2ndpillar2]

The nations depicted in Daniel 2:45 have not all been crushed ...

PSALM 110 : 2 - Literal Standard Version

YHWH sends the rod of Your strength from Zion, Rule in the midst of Your enemies.

The kingdom'is set up 1914 before the destruction of the wicked.

NOTE The events "IN HEAVEN" have been UNSEEN to the world's population.


JW

PSALM 110 : 2 - Literal Standard Version

YHWH sends the rod of Your strength from Zion, Rule in the midst of Your enemies.

]



Matthew 13:30 eviscerates your picture of the gathering of the wheat before the tares/wicked. The "tares"/"wicked" are the "first" to be gathered and burned, and then the wheat is taken into the barn.

New American Standard Bible Matthew 13:30
Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and at the time of the harvest, I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

Matthew 13:49 “So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[JehovahsWitness]

The nations depicted in Daniel 2:45 have not all been crushed ...

PSALM 110 : 2 - Literal Standard Version

YHWH sends the rod of Your strength from Zion, Rule in the midst of Your enemies.

The kingdom'is set up 1914 before the destruction of the wicked.

NOTE The events "IN HEAVEN" have been UNSEEN to the world's population.


JW

PSALM 110 : 2 - Literal Standard Version

YHWH sends the rod of Your strength from Zion, Rule in the midst of Your enemies.

Matthew 13:30 eviscerates your picture of the gathering of the wheat before the tares/wicked.

I'm afraid I dont understand your point. I looked up the word "eviscerates" but I still dont understand. Perhaps you could rephrase using more everyday language?





JW