The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[2ndpillar2]

The nations depicted in Daniel 2:45 have not all been crushed ...

PSALM 110 : 2 - Literal Standard Version

YHWH sends the rod of Your strength from Zion, Rule in the midst of Your enemies.

The kingdom'is set up 1914 before the destruction of the wicked.

NOTE The events "IN HEAVEN" have been UNSEEN to the world's population.


JW

PSALM 110 : 2 - Literal Standard Version

YHWH sends the rod of Your strength from Zion, Rule in the midst of Your enemies.

Matthew 13:30 eviscerates your picture of the gathering of the wheat before the tares/wicked.

I'm afraid I dont understand your point. I looked up the word "eviscerates" but I still dont understand. Perhaps you could rephrase using more everyday language?





JW

It means tore into pieces/disembowel. It means that Matthew 13:30 says exactly the opposite of what you are saying. It is the "tares", the "wicked", who are "first" gathered by the angels, and burned, thrown into the furnace of fire, the "great tribulation", and it is then that the righteous, the "wheat", are gathered into the barn. The "elect" will have to go through the "great tribulation", but there will be survivors, because the time was "cut short" (Matthew 24:22).

[JehovahsWitness]

...Matthew 13:30 says exactly the opposite of what you are saying.

Well, in keeping with the theme of this thread, Jehovahs Witnesses do not interpret Matthew 13 as you seem to. By our interpretation Matthew 13 presents no conflict to what I have said.



JW



FURTHER READING “Look! I Am With You All the Days”
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013531#h=19

RELATED POSTS

Who Is the Antichrist?
viewtopic.php?p=1039331#p1039331

When did "The Great Apostacy" take place?
viewtopic.php?p=1044471#p1044471

Who are the wheat and who are the weeds in Jesus illustration?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 74#p922074

FIRST RESURRECTION

When do spirit anointed "born again" Christians join Christ in heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 95#p917395

Does the first resurrection happe before or after the Great Tribulation?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 3#p1011353

NOTE: Christ's "return" is not to be confused with his "presence" (parousia) spoken of in Matther 24 verse 3, which began in 1914.

[2ndpillar2]

...Matthew 13:30 says exactly the opposite of what you are saying.

Well, in keeping with the theme of this thread, Jehovahs Witnesses do not interpret Matthew 13 as you seem to. By our interpretation Matthew 13 presents no conflict to what I have said.



JW



FURTHER READING “Look! I Am With You All the Days”
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013531

RELATED POSTS

Who Is the Antichrist?
viewtopic.php?p=1039331#p1039331

When did "The Great Apostacy" take place?
viewtopic.php?p=1044471#p1044471

Who are the wheat and who are the weeds in Jesus illustration?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 74#p922074

Yeah, by your interpretation, your fellow JWs are already in heaven since 1914. I still don't figure how you came up with 1914. I am thinking that some basic language skills wouldn't hurt. How you change the "first" into last, only works in certain defined ways, and doesn't apply in this case.

[tam]

Peace to you all,

Though I am sure we have been through this numerous times before, the first resurrection did not occur (or even begin) in 1914.

None of this has yet happened:

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. 1Thess 4:16, 17

and,

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 1Corinth 15:51, 52

Both verses are talking about the same thing. Same trumpet sounding. ALL are changed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. All - those who had died and those yet alive - when Christ returns.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2ndpillar2]

Peace to you all,

Though I am sure we have been through this numerous times before, the first resurrection did not occur (or even begin) in 1914.

None of this has yet happened:

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. 1Thess 4:16, 17

and,

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 1Corinth 15:51, 52

Both verses are talking about the same thing. Same trumpet sounding. ALL are changed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. All - those who had died and those yet alive - when Christ returns.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

By relying on the comments of the false prophet Paul, the JWs have negated the testimony of Yeshua. Per Matthew 24:29, the son of man comes "immediately after the tribulation", in which the "wicked"/"tares" are tossed into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:30) "first", a period when the "elect" will also be present in the "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:22). According to the JW graphic, the JWs are resurrected to heaven "first". It is after the "tares" are burned, that the wheat/righteous are gathered into the barn (Matthew 13:30), which is to say, they will rule with "Christ"/king David (Revelation 20:4), on earth from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16 & Ezekiel 37:24-25), on the land given to Jacob, and not from some type of heavenly heaven as proposed by the JW creed. According to Paul, when the trumpet is sounded marks when "we will all be changed in an instant", which is antithetical to the Law and the prophets per Jeremiah 31:30, whereas "everyone will die for their own iniquities". According to the JWs, they are in some kind of heaven from 1914, and according to the "tare" link in the JWs previous response, all the "Christians" are the tares, and the JWs are the wheat, but only starting in 1914. That message is wrong, and over inclusive. According to Matthew 13;30, the tares will be allowed grow with the wheat until the "harvest"/"end of the age", and not weeded out, to protect the roots of the wheat. According to the JWs, apparently, the tare seed, the message of the devil, that is mixed with the message of the son of man, the wheat seed, would apply to the tares, in which the tares would be considered the regular "Christians". The JWs don't mention that they use the same book of mixed messages, yet declare themselves saved, and the regular "Christians" as lost and doomed for "destruction" in the coming "great tribulation". Even the 144,000 of Revelation 7 live through the "great tribulation" with an added mark so that the angels will do no harm to them, whereas the JWs, according to the graph provided in their previous link, think they will be sent to heaven before the great tribulation and the crushing of the nations (Daniel 2:45). The JWs fail to realize that nations/Gentiles are smitten by the Word of God before Word of God starts his reign (Revelation 19:15) along with the righteous (Revelation 20:4). Since Paul actually died, as well as his contemporary listeners, his Corinthian 15:51 is a false prophecy, which actually should negate everything he has said. Dt 18:22 Plus his message is mirrored by that of the devil/serpent in Genesis 3:4.

Deuteronomy 18:22 “When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

[JehovahsWitness]

I still don't figure how you came up with 1914.

Have you never asked one of Jehovah's Witnesses to explain this point?




JEHOVAHS WITNESS

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM, 1914 and ... THE GENTILE TIMES

[2ndpillar2]

I still don't figure how you came up with 1914.

Have you never asked one of Jehovah's Witnesses to explain this point?




JEHOVAHS WITNESS

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM, 1914 and ... THE GENTILE TIMES

Here is your chance to inform the whole world.

[JehovahsWitness]

I still don't figure how you came up with 1914.

Have you never asked one of Jehovah's Witnesses to explain this point?




JEHOVAHS WITNESS

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM, 1914 and ... THE GENTILE TIMES

Here is your chance to inform the whole world.

I usually identify questions by the presence of a question mark (?). All I can see in your post is a STATEMENT. Was there something you would like to ask me?



JW

[2timothy316]

I still don't figure how you came up with 1914.

Have you never asked one of Jehovah's Witnesses to explain this point?




JEHOVAHS WITNESS

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM, 1914 and ... THE GENTILE TIMES

Here is your chance to inform the whole world.

We've been informing the whole world for years on our website and door to door ministry.
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... logy-1914/
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... _321_VIDEO

[2ndpillar2]

I still don't figure how you came up with 1914.

Have you never asked one of Jehovah's Witnesses to explain this point?

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM, 1914 and ... THE GENTILE TIMES

Here is your chance to inform the whole world.

We've been informing the whole world for years on our website and door to door ministry.
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... logy-1914/
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... _321_VIDEO

Your linked 1914 JW explanation states that the end of the reign of the nations of Daniel will be in 1914 and that there were 7 periods from Nebuchadnezzar. Well, that has not actually played out as you predicted, and we are in the era of the eighth head of the beast, who was one of the 7 (Revelation 17:11). As for Daniel and his 2520 days, which you proscribe as 2520 years, that begs the question; do you use Jewish lunar years, or the JWs Julian calendar years, or the Roman Catholic Gregorian calendar with the years being broken down into months named after different gods? Would your end of the world fit with the 7th millennium of the Jewish calendar, which remains in the future, or in step with the Julian/beast calendar? How many days in a Jewish calendar, and how many days are in a Julian calendar? It seems your foundations are a bit shaky. And this is just one instance.